the only group today is a very small and mighty group that gets to look into lots of different areas for the Commander as a think tank as we were established , you have individuals with tons and tons of experience that really provide diversity of thought and experiences . Where do I see us in the future ? I think that our connections are going to be the strength of who we are . First demand simply must arm our airmen to out think . Outperform our partner out , innovate any potential adversary . The first command the Air Force starts here . Hello and thank you for tuning into the Air Force starts here podcast . My name is Miriam thurber and it is my honor to introduce you to Air education and training commands . Premier think tank , the Arnold group . They were established in june of 2020 as a go to source for expertise , studying specific issues that affect the command to break it down . The Arnold group is where 86 commander turns for evidence based decision support . Their team specializes in bringing a diverse set of experiences and personalities together to analytically digest a problem and ask creative questions . They also keep their ears very close to the ground , acting as connective tissue . Between 80 c academia and our sister services . They foster incredible collaboration towards innovation and educational spaces across the board . We obviously have a lot to unpack . So let's jump in with our experts today . We have the pleasure of speaking with three members of the Arnold group in the room with me is Miss Melissa Gar moe , who is the A nine Z division chief and head of the Arnold group . Thanks so much for joining us , Miss Carmo , thank you in the room . We also have Mr Roger Corben , thank you so much for being here . It's a pleasure to be here . Thank you . And Captain Steven Cat Shrine , who is also a member of the Arnold group , thank you so much for joining us . Thank you very much for having me , welcome to all three of you and welcome listeners , thank you for joining us today . One of the most amazing things about the Arnold group is the diversity of the team and all the different experiences and expertise that you bring to the table . MS Carmelo , Could you start by telling us a little bit about the Arnold group team ? Yeah , so our team is very , very diverse . You have the guy in the field , right ? You have a Green Beret ranger on the team , you have a senior enlisted advisor on her team , right ? And he's also was a combat medic . You have front line folks experience based on the team , you have a PhD on the team with neuropsychology which brings a unique flavor , but we've tempered that unique flavor or that , that diverse experience with a human factors engineer . Captain Catrin is a human factors engineer . So those bring some really diverse experience and then my background is just acquisition . Right , and so , knowing how all of the pieces go together as well as how do we get the budgeting piece of that , but then you have you know roger with the aviation experience and you know , he has been at all levels of leadership within within the Air Force and having those different experience and so when you get all of those schools of thoughts together right from the experience base , then you get a really unique product when we sit in the white board , does that make it easier to build relationships when you go outside of the Arnold group ? Because you have such a diverse team . So I think it does help because people speak the language , right ? I mean because every cultural community has its unique language within the service um so it's helpful to have somebody who at least can hum a few bars of what's going on in that area as well as just I have a lot of people who are very open and willing to build , enforce those relationships and thirsty for knowledge to learn more and different things . So I think I have the right team to go out and look for it , even if they don't have an experience in a particular area , they have the desire to know more and to provide the best innovation forward that is the beauty of the Arnold group , having diversity of thought , plugging into all of the other diversity of thought within the big six because we are chartered so that we can do we can stand up informal teams Um So we're pulling experts across a . E . T . C . To really get the best answers for leaders . That experience base I think speaks to diversity of thought because of the diverse educational backgrounds , the diverse um work backgrounds that each of us bring . I think sometimes we would think that innovators ought to be brand new , have no experience to develop that innovative thought . But the team that we have brings a rich base of experience to create that innovative thought because of the different perspectives that we bring to the table . And also the idea I think that we have jelled as a is a very powerful working group . We we are able to sometimes people would call it a rumble , you know where you get in the room and have very divergent thoughts and so we do brainstorm were respectful with each other and so there's a freedom to share I think from that experience base . And so that's pretty powerful when you bring all of that together to come up with an innovative thought in the future that really is focused on what what the Chief of Staff of the Air Force is focused on which is forced development and being able in the future to to be more powerful to be more agile and all of the attributes that Airpower bring to to what we're trying to do in the future . Yeah . So when you think about innovation and you think about the need for divergent thinking ? There's also that need for convergent thinking right ? And bringing it all back together ? Understanding all of the factors that are applied . That's what the Arnold group brings to the table is we've got we have the time to be divergent , we have the time to be convergent and we get to what is truly the problem and help really refine those problem statements and giving actionable recommendations to commanders , which is so vital . You know , you can know something's wrong , you know , something's just a little bit off but not even know how to define the question , what is my problem ? What am I really trying to solve ? Yeah . And so I think that's the firepower we bring to the command . Mr Corbyn , the entire Air Force was charged by Air Force Chief of Staff General Brown to accelerate change or lose . Can you tell us a little bit of how the Arnold group is an answer to that call . The Arnold Group is the lead for exploring future environments here in a T C . General Webb who is the current A E T . C . Commander chartered the Arnold Group back in june of 20 so we're about a year and a half old and we see our job focused on decision support for not only General Webb , the Commander but also uh the Deputy Commander and also the A E . T . C . Big six in the Arnold group we like to identify things like what's in the future , what is emerging opportunities , what are some of the advances that go on both in academia and industry innovations that would be strategically relevant to the future of what we're doing here in A . T . C . Which is forced development . Uh We do things to identify those through research to try to discover what's going on in the future . We try to define issues for the commanders that come up from time to time . We see our role is to not only inform but also to influence and where possible to integrate the things that we find out through analysis and assessment of activities that are going on across the A . T . C . Enterprise . So we're starting to build relationships with joint services , were trying to establish relationships with academia and also industry . So we're pursuing initiatives that really directly translate the A . T . C . Commander's vision and priorities into practice and we also serve as the catalyst for initiatives by producing studies and integrating key issues and projects across at and and just the Force Development Enterprise . And it's such a unique relationship between proactive and reactive , you know , you're discovering what's happening in the future so we can be best prepared in accelerating this change . But you're also defining the issues as you said and I love how you kept talking about relationships right relationship with academia with these joint forces ? Um Captain Cat Ryan , could you tell us a little bit about why relationships are important with Academia leaders ? Yeah absolutely . Within D . O . D . Joint services there's a lot of work that that is being done . However when you're going outside of that you're looking at some innovation some specific changes that that can be made . A lot of that can come from either industry or academia and specifically when we focus on academia they produce a lot of quality cutting edge research . And that that research is really what facilitates the development of the projects that we have and it may not be technology that is being built in that research or in the studies that are being done but maybe some of the concepts that are involved really helped develop that we seek these partnerships to help us influence those activities across the force development . So within academia we try and pursue these relationships in order to not only kind of sit on the sidelines and see what academia is doing but actually get involved . And so that will really help us explore some of that new knowledge , explore some of the ways that we can then further the projects that we have and the things that we build and with this whole diverse background you're working on so many different projects with the opportunity to work on so many more in the future as well . That's amazing and so exciting . So if anyone who's listening anyone down the road listening in three years is interested in learning what you guys have found or some of your findings . Mr Corbyn , could you tell us , is there a way for someone to have access to the research that you've done and the findings you've had ? Yes , certainly . We want anyone interested to have access to the armed group work . And so we're working with a T . C . History office for now . A simple email would work . They're interested or they have an inquiry or they want to know what kind of work that we have done just for now . A simple email request for whether the Arnold group has studied that topic or researched an area of interest to the audience . But eventually , because of the work that we've done with the research office , it will be housed here at 80 C with the history office . And we're also being included in a new initiative that the half a three is working on to be included in the Air Force vault and put into a cloud , which is a recent initiative . So , thanks for asking . Oh , yeah , well , I'm excited about this too . And what some examples of things people might find , like , could you give us an example about one of your favorite projects that you've worked on ? Sure . Not too long ago , I worked on a project where I took a look at outcome based education and training , we really got this topic from our teammates in Force Development policy division . They requested some some help and research on outcome based education because they were involved in a a rewrite of an Air Force policy directive 36 26 which is the Total Force Development Policy . So much of what had been written before was what we would call the industrial age where everyone starts and stops on a schedule and it's all time based . Whereas what they were trying to uh focus on was more of an outcome based assessment . It really boils down to education that clearly focuses and organizes everything in the educational system around what's essential for the students to be able to successfully do in the Air Force job out in the field . So it's important to have a clear picture of what we want he or she to learn and then to be able to successfully assess it . So you almost start from the back and move forward and develop uh the education based on what the outcome ought to be . So it ends up being a shift away from how much time is spent in the classroom , two more along the lines of transforming into a demonstration and an assessment of the outcome of that learning outcome . So it's focused on performance . Uh So the application of learning and the trainees , air Force specialty after they graduate . So it will provide a quantifiable way to assess and report what a student learns in order to really adjust the curriculum and scheduled to maximize the return on the investment . Mhm . So it ends up being a student centered kind of an approach which is what A . T . C . Is moving towards . Yeah student centric model where it's really meeting the airmen where they are and delivering it in the modality that really is their preference and it also gives them a chance to accelerate their learning , putting the time in in the areas that they needed . Mhm . That's spreading all throughout the Air Force . It's fun to know that that started right here , the Arnold Group and kevin , can you talk about some of the projects that you've enjoyed working on ? Yeah . Absolutely . So one of the projects that that I've been focused on is is the collaboration with A T . C . And academia , a lot of the A . T . C . Bases that we have have a school nearby But it may not have quite the research or it may not have the focus of research that we're looking for . And so if you're you know if you're not worried about location , how do you then determine from those 4000 universities who we actually want to target ? And that's where that's where I think that approach can come in handy . Do you have an example of a project that you're working on or some end goal you're trying to achieve and maybe a university or academia institution you found that you weren't expecting to be such a good match . So I didn't look at specific projects . So I didn't look at anything that we were currently doing in terms of like here's a focus that we have . Let's look towards this and finding a university for that I I stayed you know focused more on the generalized sense of if somebody within a . T . C . Would like to actively look towards this topic . You can choose from these schools based on how high they are . Top 100 versus versus there are one institution status which really again that that denotes um whether you know whether they have a doctoral research program which again that that goes back to the whole cutting edge research , what what are we looking for . And so that cutting edge research will will facilitate just a faster pace as we talk about accelerated change or lose . I mean we're looking towards a faster pace . Not not an unbreakable speed where we let things fall off but just you know a calculated speed . And those research institutions can help us get there . Yeah . Absolutely . And your data basing them which makes it so much easier when that problem arises . Or that question comes up . You already have people you can go to correct , we may not even be on their radar yet . They may not be looking for governmental support . I'm not entirely sure . But just cataloging these is as a potential resources is really the goal building the network for people . So they don't have to necessarily go to every meet and greet to find the right people . That's awesome . So if , if you have an airman or a unit that's working on a project , they can then come through you to be plugged into the correct areas , They could kind of do that research themselves . I'm trying to provide more of an open source tool in that sense to to allow them to look for potential opportunities . I hope to not be the only belly button in terms of of academia , you know , I'm not looking for people to come specifically to me to then look for those schools , I would like to provide a tool in that sense , or the Arnold group would like to provide that tool , it's really more of like a framework . So as people have a thought on , I need to go to academia , they can look at , you know , maybe this paper and see the fact that here are just different opportunities of ways to look for a university versus just cold calling . So this works for projects , would it also work if someone's sitting there thinking I really want to get a masters that's going to help me in the future with my career , is this going to be a database that they can kind of look through or is that not the purpose of this ? So if you're looking at what school should I go to this framework will help them to understand who is leading um at different areas , right ? If it's a PhD you're looking for , maybe you do want to check out an R one institution ? Maybe that wasn't something on your radar to begin with . Um If you're looking at getting your Bachelor's degree or your Master's degree , looking at who's on the top 100 list , Are those movers and Shakers in particular areas of interest in this country ? So yeah , I think that would be all useful to provide a source . Very much so . That's awesome . Really applicable to anyone at every level . So MS Carmelo , I know last summer in 2021 R A T . C Commander , Lieutenant General brad Webb asked , how do I know I'm delivering a quality graduate ? How is the Arnold group helping to answer that question ? Yeah , that that is a really , really big question and it is a big area of research um as we think about , you know , what is the command doing in that area ? Is everybody answering that question the same way the armed Group took that on . Um and one of our researchers started querying the field , putting together taskers to just try and figure out um what tools were using internally and then together with folks in the field , they were able to understand , you know , how we are collecting that information today and what should be the next step ? Technology is developing so quickly that the generational gap is now , like super small . So as we continue and get new airmen , as we get new technology as we get new methods of learning , is this gonna be a question that's going to be asked again in a couple of years ? I think that this is going to be an ongoing question . You know , we always want to know the quality of the products that we provide , I can see this continuing to be a project , I know that they formed a working group um to really look at this question to make sure that there's a standardized answer um and so we , as the armed group have supported the coming to that as a conclusion and you know , the startup of that particular process , I know another big question that is always overarching in all of our minds is how ready is a TC . So I would like to ask you miss Carmo based on the research that you and your group have done , how ready are we ? I think that we as a team realized that you know to be ready , we have to be connected and I think that we continue every day working on those connections to ensure that we are ready for the future and we're always focused on that message . So we , in the Arnold group continue to take those projects that are of interest to the commander to give them the information that he needs to support the decisions to always focus on readiness . That continued readiness and continually fatality because readiness is always going to change if you look at stovepipes , right , And you look at you look at people trying to do research , trying to do work any type of work just within their own lane . Usually it's it's that that kind of minimal sourcing that that own thought you can get to certain places but you really only you really only leapfrog you really only make those huge advances when you get a lot of people um connecting together and bringing new ideas to the table , new thoughts to the forefront , new ways to improve that and and so by those connections um just developing that , that thought and developing just a continuous movement that thought will only get us further and it will only , you know , allow us to kind of bounce off of each other and develop those ideas stronger and quicker I think as we connect as we learn from our mistakes and as we learn from the people that are making mistakes and hopefully bringing those , those answers to the table are bringing at least improved solutions , improved processes to the table . Uh that should further our readiness um in terms of being ready , that is a continuous process , I would say . And I think it's always a growing kind of process and melissa mentioned a few minutes ago , just the connectedness of what we're trying to do in the armed group , connecting with academia and industry , connecting with our joint service partners and also connecting with what's going on inside a TC , whether it be with someone on the A . T . C . Staff or whether it be with a group and a lot of the problems that that we work on aren't aren't going to be you know processed based problems . It's not you know okay we have a problem with people following this process now it's these wicked problems that that the commander has that doesn't have just a single answer and and likely will never have a single answer . But but how do we come up with with an appropriate answer with what we have with the tools that we have , the resources that we have , How can we build something that is actionable with it ? You know you come with this wicked problem and you hope that something can you know we can delve into that figure out a solution and figure out a solution that we can then implement and and maybe we don't even implement that but but even just to get started on a problem is enough to be helpful . It's enough to provide that that that service that we were tasked to do . Right . So when you think about the term wicked problem right , you think about something that can't be solved ? It's what part of that problem can we attack ? Can we give the information so that we can make the necessary change to be most effective for the command and so it's really breaking that wicked problem into a solvable problem and actionable in providing some courses of action or even just recommendations that could be formulated into courses of actions . Um so that leaders can can really focus on something that could be a change or implemented innovation . And so that's really the purpose of why we're trying to develop strategic relationships and you've probably come to understand that when you wrap all of this stuff up that the Arnold group does , we , we kind of fall into two camps if you will , one would be building strategic relationships and the other one would be providing actionable decision support for the commander . One of the other things were charged with is you know , when you think about strategy , we think about the future . One of our roles would be in that strategy cycle . Right ? So strategy feeds into how we we expend dollars in the future , right ? You have to have a strategy for , you can put budget towards it before you can get to the strategy , you have to understand the environment and so were tasked with understanding the environment to help the strategy folks develop what our future strategies are in our title is future environments . Right ? And so we're not necessarily looking at gaps or near term kind of thing , but the plausible future so that we can kind of stay ahead . Right ? And then our goal is to stay ahead . So it's gaps and opportunities . Right ? And so like what do we need in the battlefield today , but what is technology changing that might affect how we teach our airmen in the future . And so it's not just a gap like , you know , just because you're teaching doesn't mean that there's a , there's a gap you can see Sometimes it's those opportunities , what's changing in K-12 today ? What's changing at the universities today that has applicability to the service um or to all of the services that , you know , are we going to have our lessons in the classroom on a telephone ? Right . You know , our iphones are are many computers for all of our airmen as opposed to how they were taught before , where it was all a book of material . Yeah . So applying some of those opportunities , um like you talked about all the different modalities , um what makes most sense for the future and then providing the place for people to make educated decisions in those future environments . Because I think in some sense is if we're looking at trends , we're already a little bit behind right ? And in the future would be those plausible opportunities , not just the trendiness of what's going on today . So we're we're hoping to get out in front of it a little bit instead of looking in the rearview rearview mirror on what might have already passed its that interconnectedness with the national security innovation base , right ? That we really have to drive to to make sure we get all of the goodness into the service at the right time to be most effective because it really is about the right person with the right training at the right place to be able to execute that airpower and even seeing that , you know , I may be out of school for a little while now , but but still being that youngest and having taught , I've seen , you know , the students that I saw were still different from how I learned , I mean , we were looking for different ways to do it , because the way that we've done , it's not going to cut it anymore in the , in the way to keep them engaged , keep them interested in and when you're engaged in street , that's when you learn the most , that's when you you can really make those connections and your focus and your brain , your brain really thinks about the problems , so trying to keep them engaged , keep them focused was something that that we always struggle with . I mean , when you're , when you're looking at some of the old ways of teaching and so the Arnold group is really well placed . If you think about being in the A nine , right ? That's the Innovation Heart and Soul of the command , um all of the innovators who have their innovations that are being monitored by the nine A folks , it allows to get that information quickly into , you know , us looking into the future . It also allows us to connect with people like debt 23 who are , are trying new things and allows us to kind of push to them new things that we're seeing in the community . So we're really well placed to do the role . We've been asked to do the fact that we have that in our charter to allow us to set up ad hoc teams , um we're already started to do that , we don't have to get permission so um we , we can set those teams up and really get at the best information and quickly send that to leadership . Thank you MS Carmon Mr Corbett and Captain Catrin for your time and thank you listeners for joining us as they said , the future lies in collaboration . So if you have an innovative idea or a new negative information about education or training , reach out to the Arnold group to pull your knowledge , you can find their email in the article we posted . Just visit a e t C dot af dot mil and search for the Arnold group . Of course , you're also welcome to ask us questions about the Arnold group through social media . Air education and Training Command is on facebook linkedin , instagram and twitter and we'd love to chat more about this awesome think tank . Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast for the latest 80 C news and if you have a topic you'd like us to address in a future episode , reach out and let us know from our entire 80 c public affairs team . Thank you for joining us again . I'm Miriam thurber , and I'll see you next time on the Air Force starts here .