- Roger 4807, approaching runway seven bravo. - The air force has announced the creation of a new information operations technical training school. - So in our business, national security, where our job is to fly, fight, win, we better be masters at this game of innovation. - Air force basic military training has an updated curriculum with a new focus on readiness and lethality. - This is the Developing Mach-21 Airmen podcast. (booming) Hey everybody, welcome in to Developing Mach-21 Airmen, and thanks for the subscribe, stream or download today. If you get a chance to throw us some stars or even a review, we certainly would appreciate that as well as we try to see how you're liking this new podcast really dedicated to bringing total force, big A Airmen, insight, tips, tricks, and lessons learned from the recruiting, training, and education field. I'm Dan Hawkins from the Air Education and Training Command Public Affairs office and your host for this professional development podcast, and here in episode number four today, we're talking innovation, and we've got a great trio of experts on that very topic from the somewhat new A9Z division here at the AETC headquarters, which focuses in on engagements and assessments related to the learning environment here in the First Command. Danielle Koehler, Technical Sergeant Michael Maturan, and Staff Sergeant Aaron Parker from the A9Z sit down with me and talk about the world of innovation and everything going on, and it was a great conversation. Sergeant Parker, a former technical training school instructor, up until recently, actually, at the 17th training wing out at Goodfellow Air Force Base in San Angelo, Texas. He talks a little bit about an instructor presentation competition that got him thinking about innovation and how leaders in organizations were chasing innovation, and surprisingly enough, the presentation was so good that it actually ended up with him personally giving the presentation to the boss, Lieutenant General Kwast himself. It's really an interesting story because it speaks to how Airmen at all levels can, through many different ways, have their voices heard, so you'll wanna check that out. Miss Koehler, she spent a lotta time talking about the A9Z and what their main role is, including the fact that they're working on a ton of research right now in regards to what learning will look like moving into the future. They're really, so much experience on our AETC staff, and they're working so hard to insure that we as a command break those long-held, industrial-age paradigms that General Kwast has spoken to on a few different occasions, insuring our Airmen get training and education that is learner-centric, controlled by Airmen themselves, and presented in the context of a mission and not just training to do a job. Interestingly enough, another thing I learned while prepping for the podcast was the fact that there's now an AFSC dedicated to innovation, and Sergeant Maturan is now in it after a career spent in the cyber arena, so he has some insight into what that means and some of the things that he is doing now in his new job with the A9Z, and we'll also talk with all of our guests about the clear path leadership has given Airmen to pursue innovation here in the First Command, and it's directly tied to the national defense strategy and the AETC strategic plan as well as being empowered to do so through, really, a culture that embraces innovation, so let's get to it. Episode four of Developing Mach-21 Airmen starts right now. (swooshing) We'll start with you, Danielle. Tell us a little bit about yourself. - I've worked in the headquarters since 2011. Came into A29 about a year ago, and I'm now the engagements team chief for the Future Environments Division. - Okay, and Sergeant Maturan, you have an interesting background. Cyber to innovation. - That's right, so I'm a 3D0X2 by trade. Currently working in a new nine India 100 AFSC that's brand new to the air force. Working as the NCOIC of the Future Environments Division here in A29. - And Sergeant Parker, you're a little bit popular. We've seen you on video, but tell us a little bit about what you're doing now. - Yes Sir, so I am an RI9S100. That's a very small career field that most people haven't heard of. It's a scientific application specialist. Prior to my assignment here with this new awesome team, I was an instructor out at Goodfellow Air Force Base at the special instruments training flight. - So, when we started doing a little bit of homework before we decided to record the podcast, I watched your video on innovation, and that's kinda what got me thinking about innovation in the first place, at least from your perspective, but I was hoping you could share what it was that drove you to A, make that video, and B, where you feel like the power in that video comes from. What's the main thought process behind innovation that you really wanted to kind of get across to your fellow Airmen? - So it started out, actually, and the whole thing was a multi-month journey of a bunch of people's effort. This was absolutely, by no means just me gathering these resources and doing the work or anything like that, but the way it started is out at some of our tech training bases, there is a competition called Top Tech where each of the training squadron goes in, however they divide it out. At Goodfellow they do it quarterly, and they say, who are our top instructors. They select 'em. They give 'em a topic, and you compete in front of a live audience under some format for who is the best instructor, so best instructor simply being who did the best job of conveying information and being a communicator. So, sometimes the formats are a little bit different. Sometimes it's a traditional format. This one happened to be a TED Talk format, so very informal but more or less one-way, and the theme was very ambiguous. It was spring forward. Now, that's a little ambiguous. It was little frustrating at first 'cause like, well, what does that mean? So, are we talking daylight savings time, or do I teach people how springs work or something like that, but yeah, I was just sittin' there, and I was like, there's a lot of talk about innovation. Spring forward, that kinda speaks, I think, to the idea of innovation, but the angle that I took it from was less, you know, I don't just wanna be someone else that talks about the merits of innovation and why we need to innovate 'cause that's true, but there's enough people talking about that. I think, maybe, figuring out how to try and speak to the frustration of why is it, in a lot of units, in a lotta organizations within the air force, we feel like we're not innovating, and we hear it all the time, but we're kind of tired of hearing it because it doesn't feel like it means anything, or we don't feel as individuals at low levels, like, that we actually have a real part to play in that, so that's what spurred on the whole idea, and so I did the competition, and that went as it went, but our group commander was sitting there, and he said Sergeant Parker, I want you to brief this to the wing commander, and I briefed it to the wing commander at some point later, and then General Kwast was coming through, and as part of his tour, they said hey, we want some enlisted voice here, so they said, part of that's gonna be you, Sergeant Parker. We'd like to give your, give your talk to General Kwast, and it was just kinda, it just trickled up the chain, and it got to the point where it's like, we need to record this 'cause there's a really good message here that a lotta people from the bottom to the top, it's resonating with them. Different aspects of the video speak to different, or of the message speak to different people, so we need to get it out there, so it was by no means me gathering cameras and a backdrop and, you know, visual effects, anything, but yeah, I ended up gettin' to go to D.C. and record in the basement of the Pentagon, and there's a really awesome team there that put that, I mean, I think they did an amazing job in terms of production value and everything else of makin' a sharp video, and yeah, and then it was just kinda off to the races, and then it's been pretty awesome so far. - So, what was really your central message, though, in that video? What is it that you feel like really seemed to resonate? What central theme of that just seemed to catch fire? - Well so, the first part of it that I came to the table with was two things. One, giving Airmen at the lowest level the language to describe why it is when we hear and we talk about innovation, why is it almost frustrating because it feels like it's fruitless. We're not being told anything, but also where do you even start? At the higher levels, there's lots of innovation theory and the 20,000 rules for how to innovate and all these different things that, you know, first off, their average Airman doesn't have the time of day to be sitting there trying to grind that thought process out, and second off, I mean, that's a hard nut to crack. Where do you start making meaningful innovation? So that was the first part, is how do we break that language down to give Airmen the words that they need to describe their frustration, so that we can start doing something about it. That was where the game theory part came in, describing what, when you outline your objectives, a clear vision of what winning looks like, that that gives people a target, and when people are a target and when people, not when people are a target, when people have a target and when teams have a target, it aligns the team and allows them to be more productive. We all know what we're workin' towards, and then the other part of where do you start. I think it's really tough at the high levels when we're marketing innovation that a lot of the imagery that we use is the imagery that doesn't necessarily connect with your everyday Airman, right? So in the video, I talk about, like, cool jets and new weapons platforms and software and all this other kinda stuff, but I'm just a guy in this office tryin' to do this one simple thing. I don't touch jets. I don't write code. I don't do any of that. Where do I fit into that piece of the puzzle? And so making it clear and relatable that no, you absolutely do. Every member of every organization who puts their hands on the tools that that organization gives you already has a window in, and what you do is you look at the tools that you have, and you say how can these be better? I don't have to change everything. All I have to do is start thinking about how I can meaningfully change what I have control over and the tools I have, so yeah, just giving them the language, so that when the communication comes down and they don't know what the direction is, to say hey, I absolutely. I wanna innovate. Boss, my commander, my NCO, it doesn't matter what level's communicating that we need to innovate, but if it's not clear that you can go back, and you say okay, what's our target? And then when you say okay, how am I gonna get to that target? That you look in the tools in your hands, and you say what about these tools that I have can change to get us there? Now, the cool part that was really awesome and I think is the pivotal thing for everything that we're doing in AETC, that the air force needs, and that the U.S. military needs as a whole, is what General Kwast brought in when he heard the message, so he heard it, and at the end, he said, there's one part that I'd like to see tacked into here, which is pretty tough 'cause it's already a pretty long message and there's lots of things goin' on, and he said, you know, it's culture. He recommended a couple books. One of them is called The Innovator's Dilemma, so there's two of them. There's The Innovator's Dilemma and The Innovator's Solution, but then there was also the book called Borrowing Brilliance, and, but yeah, speaking to culture, and so I had to go back, and I had to do a bunch of whole research to kinda unpack both what I thought he meant, so that I could meet his intent, right? We've got a three star that just said hey, this is what I need you to do. He gave me the target, but then also to say okay, how do I, again, break that down into language that's useful for everyone, not just people at the top, for everyone? So yeah, those are the, basically, the three tenants of the message. We need a target. We need to know what it is we're workin' towards. How do ya start? Ya look at the tools that are within your control and within your authority to start questioning and changing, and the culture part is looking within and looking outside your organization and saying why. Why are we doing what it is that we're doing? Is the way that we're doing it the way that we should be doing it? Is there a way that we can do it better? And that everyone else around you is willing to entertain that question 'cause if everyone around you, and this is the part of the problem of our culture, right? Your average Airman says hey, why are we doin' this? I think this is, like, really dumb, and everybody's just like, hey, just shut up and color. That's the thing we say. Is that we, there are times when that's necessary, right? There's times when you're just nose to the grinding stone. Nope, we just gotta do it, but turns out, that's not all the time. In fact, that's only really a few times. Most of the times we do have the time and opportunity to say yeah, why do we do things the way we do them? Yeah, so that's the heart of the video. - So one more quick question on that, and we'll kinda move on, but the reaction to that video, probably a little bit overwhelming to a certain extent, but very cool on the other hand. - Right, so well, so there's two sides to the reaction. There's a, it goes out and everybody's really supportive and says hey, man, I saw your video on Facebook or DVIDS or whatever, that's really cool. Chief's saying hey, I'd like to take your video and go show it to these people. Commander's saying eye sights in the video in terms of our leaders not, and again at any level, but providing a sense of direction, a clear sense of direction, utilizing a hypothetical email from a commander where we just say, we need to make the squadron better, but that's it. We just leave you hanging at the word better, and Commander's coming to be and saying, I've written that email, and I didn't get anything back. Nobody came forward with any ideas or anything like that, and it makes sense why, right? I didn't give anybody a target to work with, and so that's really powerful. That's really cool. Just across the spectrum of the hierarchy, it resonates, and then you have the other sides of the reception, which is all my friends and coworkers making fun of me. (laughing) - They wouldn't do that. - No, no, not at all, right? - So, you talked about that culture, and so I think that's a great place to transition into the A9Z here at the headquarters, the engagements and assessments, and you talk about culture, and it'll also bleed into this new AFSC, but we'll start with the A9Z, so Danielle, tell us a little bit about A9Z. I know it stood up within the last year, but what really is your guys's mission in the A9Z? - So, A9Z is, like you said, engagements and assessments. The engagement side is building that network of relationship with people across not only AETC but across the air force and connecting them to people in academia, industry, sister services. What are other people doing? And to help them so they're not struggling to get information. We wanna be kinda that belly button for people to come to and get that information and share the information we're gathering. The assessment side of it is building that deeper understanding of the learning environment. Where are we now, and then what does the future of learning look like? So, we're working on the future learning 2030 currently, and how do we develop Airmen? How do they learn? What are the trends in academia, and bringing that back and kinda getting ahead of that power curve instead of behind it. The air force is kind of back in the 1950s, 60s of learning, and we wanna get into the future of learning, so we're not behind the power curve and keep up with what academia and what the future technology has out there. - And, Sergeant Maturan, that's kind of a natural transition, like, so now you're a cyber guy, and then all of a sudden you wake up one day, and actually, you're an innovation guy, so tell me what that looks like with this new AFSC. How did you end up in this AFSC, and what is it that you're actually doing? - It has been absolutely crazy, no, but at the same it's been wonderful and eye-opening, so again, background 3D0X2, and I'm told hey, with the direction of NDS, the national defense strategy, and with the direction that General Kwast is now, has directed the AETC to go, they stand up A29, and they go, specifically, we want a dedicated Airman with this AFSC to go out and help with innovation, and what does that mean, so I'm figuring it out as I go along. We're developing this specific career field, but also tying into we need to change that culture of innovation, cultivate that. We need to get out there and reach those younger Airmen and say, you're ideas are important. We've been tasked by SecAF to go and innovate. How do we innovate? I think Sergeant Parker, with my AFSC, Sergeant Parker alluded to, there's Airmen out there, and they go, okay well, what do we do? How do we do it? A29 is here to help you. Talk to me. Talk to Sergeant Maturan over here in A9Z, and he'll help you figure it out along with there's A9A as well in the, Airmen, I'm sorry, innovations, to help you cultivate your idea and making an innovation within their I2I process there, but so that's one part of what I do in helping out Danielle in the engagements process. Finding out what is going on out there, building those partnerships and relationships, and then assessing the environment that we currently have right now, how we're doing things, and go, hey, I just reached out to university X. Here's what they're doing. Second Air Force, AD first TR, TSS. What are you guys doing? How can we help? How do we connect the dots? Maybe they're doing something that's innovative right now that you guys are trying to do within your classroom or career fields. Let's connect you guys together and see if we can't help each other out. - And when we first sat down and we weren't recording yet, I talked a little bit about the division, but what you guys said that was really interesting to me is it's not necessarily you guys doing all the engagements. You want people to engage with you as well, so how does that work? What does that look like? - So, we're currently working on building a database, so that we can share that information with who we're talking to across academia, industry, sister services, other MAJCOMs, and people can go to that and see who we're talking to and then get in touch with us to be able to get more information, and that also, the other parts of the headquarters, the force development divisions, is getting their information of who they're engaging with 'cause everybody across the headquarters is engaging every day with people outside of AETC, so gathering all of that information and then getting it out to people. That's one of the main things we wanna do. We're kinda like that spider web. Wherever the spider, sending everything out through the spider web, and get people connected to build that big web of information, and that way people aren't struggling to find information. They know where to get it from us. - And I think, just from somebody who's not necessarily in the innovation world every single moment of every day like you guys are, there can be some confusion of how to actually innovate when you have, you've got SPARK Cells, and you've got AFWERX, and you've got A9Z, and so kind of having that division who can kind of bring all that together and figure all that out, it seems like that's kind of, what, a ready-made role for you guys. - Right, right, so along those lines, it's funny, so AFWERX, A9Z, A9A, ATID, we all work together. There's so many innovation challenges out there, and that's what, in particular, A9A is working towards. There's that program IdeaScale that SecAF put forth last year. Couple years ago actually, IdeaScale's been around, so there's that Spark Tank competition, but there's a lot more than just the Spark Tank itself, so we encourage Airmen who have any kind of ideas to go to IdeaScale and what's cool about it. It's a dot com, so you can get to it from anywhere, so if you're an Airman who's sitting in your work center goin', well, I don't really know what to say at work. When I get home, and I'm inspired by something that I see, I can go ahead and draft it up and type it up and send it. I don't really know where to start, but A9A will go ahead and take a look at it and guide them in the right direction and lead them to their local wing's Spark Tanks, and if it's and AETC idea, they'll take it and help develop it and put it in and hopefully get funded, and so if it's gonna change those practices within that organization, and, I guess, enable those capabilities or future capabilities, that's exactly what, I'm sorry, what we want them to do, so IdeaScale's a huge part of the process and AFWERX, everything. It all connects together. - Yeah. - You know, we talked a little bit too about what innovation really is and that there's no set path, but we do have a clear directive on how we wanna go. Can you kind of talk to that, Sergeant Parker, a little bit about the clear directive in regards to the national defense strategy and the AETC strategic plan and why that innovation piece is so important to what our overall mission in the recruit, train, educate enterprise is? - No, I'm really glad you asked that 'cause that's actually what's been guiding most of our initial efforts, is, 'cause this organization is what do you we get after first? So in terms of the national defense strategy, so we're going in, and we're saying okay, this is where we're at, but what are the potential conflicts on the horizon that we wanna make sure that we have a deep competitive advantage to be successful. Well, it's against some pretty big dogs out there, and we're lookin' at our current systems, and we're saying okay, will that successfully get us there? If that's 10 years down the road, 20 years down the road, have we built a machine that will be prepared for that? And right now, we're saying no, so most of the messaging across the air force, whether you're looking at the national defense strategy, pretty much any of those levels of high leadership, what we've recognized is that our current model reflects an industrial model. It served us incredibly well during World War Two, all of those 20th century conflicts really served us well, but that doesn't mean that it's always gonna serve us well, and now that we're doing that forward projection and that forecasting, we're saying nope, something needs to change, so that's the first thing, is we need to recognize that it's not that the system is worthless. The system's actually gotten us really far. The system has served us well, and so that's one thing when we talk about innovation and a lot of folks that see that as a threat to maybe what they're used to or the systems that they've built or anything like that. No. - No, not that at all. - It is absolutely not. We as a team need to figure out how to take the systems that we currently have, that have served us so well, and to take the next step is to build on those systems, and that might mean changing aspects about them. Okay, so what things do we need to change? So the second, kind of the second part of your question. Well, the first thing that we need to do is we need to get better at talent management. So, a lot of times we, so the official term, you know, human resource management, but that's kind of cold, that's kinda distant, right? - Little bit. - What we're increasingly talking about, and I think what a lot of younger generations are really getting after is yes, I'm human, but I'm not just some resource. I am talent that has passions, that has skill sets, that has things that I am interested in, and not only that, I want to contribute meaningfully, so getting better at figuring out how to measure human beings, to figure out what they're good at, and putting them in the right place so that they feel empowered to not only excel and be lethal, right? We've been talking about lethality a lot lately, but also at the same time, to build into them a spirit and a culture of innovation, so that the machine, as it needs to fix itself and it needs to adjust itself in the future, we're not burdened with what we're burdened with right now, which is that we don't have a culture of innovation. We're trying to get there, but we need to get the machine to a point where it's almost like it's self-adapting and self-healing as the new threats, as the new needs emerge. - Right. - So, that's what we're trying to get at first. How to better measure human beings, and how to measure, better figure out putting them in the places that they need to be so that they show up to work every day being the best that they can be, being incredibly talented, excellence in all we do, but at the same time, that they find it meaningful, that they want to get after it, so yeah, and it's tough, but it's really helpful to us 'cause it gives us, again, the guidepost. Where do we go after first? Better human resource management. Talent management, so we need to measure better, figure out how to do that, so who's doing that really well, and who's already trying to get after that within AETC, within the air force, within the military, and connecting those dots. - And it was really interesting too because you talked a little bit before we came on the air about connecting the dots, but it was really interesting to me how like, how the A9Z can help the field as a whole and what you're actually helping the Airmen out in the field do. You talked about if people needed help, potentially, with some research or looking into certain different methods of learning. We've got such a diversified staff up here at the headquarters, and you can help connect the field with our staff. - Right, yeah, so that was, again, our fare. We did talk about that, so I've run into that at a couple of places speaking about what A9Z does. We can provide to Airmen out there the ability to help with research, with whatever changes that they wanna make. Most recently, we had a school house commander ask me during a conference that I attended, was, if I were to call you guys up, can I then ask that certain research be done of what we wanna do or changes we wanna make within the school house? Absolutely, give us call. We have research scientists working right next to us that I could absolutely say hey, this particular school house would like more information on gamification, on some of the current learning trends that we have. Can we do some research and then get back to 'em here in two to three days with some research that we've done? Cool, and in the meantime, provide him with that repository that Danielle was speaking about earlier with what research has already been done and also maybe white papers or BBPs, bullet papers, on universities that are currently doing, have their classroom or their learning environments are what it is that that school house commander would want to see. Now, we can provide that to 'em, so all that can be accessed, and we are another tool that the air force can use to get that kind of information that they're looking for, and that's, they just, he just happened to not know exactly where to find it, but if you have a resource like that, utilize us. We'll do that research for you and provide you that information. - So, as we get ready to wrap up, how can Airmen out there get ahold of you guys when they have these kinds of things? What's your number, email, how do they get ahold of you? - So, our A29 SharePoint, so that's one place what Sergeant Maturan was talkin' about. That's kind of our repositor right now of where we're putting things. We're all working on papers, and that's part of our job is to write papers, so my current paper is on what does the future classroom look like. Our researchers, we're supposed to be, we're kinda like a petting zoo, is how we kinda refer to ourselves 'cause we're from all different backgrounds. Not all of us have education degrees or teaching degrees, or we're not doctors. We have some doctors working with us in our A9Z division. - Who have a thirst for knowledge. - Yeah. - There you go. - But we have that, we want to know more, so we're working on papers, and we're gonna post 'em out on our SharePoint, and we're building an APAN website so that people can go to that as well and get that information, find those papers on what we're already researching, so the current trends that will be going out soon. Actually, Dr. Coba Smith is giving that at the learning consortium next week. She's presenting what the current trends and what the future of learning 2030 looks like, and then our researchers have been doing papers on gamification, AR VR, mixed realities, so we're working on all of those things and wanna put them out there so people can read about 'em and what the pros and cons to it are. Make sure that they're using those things correctly rather than just buying equipment, and then it goes in a room, and they never use it because they don't know how to use it or what to do with it. That's what we're here for, is to give them that information so they are using it the right way and getting the most out of it to help them in the future. - And the, so getting that infrastructure in place where we're really good at collecting that information. Who's doin' what, both within and without the military, and putting it all in a context where we can figure out how it's useful. I think a lot of folks, though, and this is one of the conversations that I've, one of the conversations that I've had since comin' in a lot with folks is, so once we start getting good at collecting that information and correlating it and putting it into a context that's useful, how do you then turn it around because, you know, Sergeant Maturan, I know you had said that you were security forces previously. When in your young enlisted career did you ever go looking for white papers? - Never. - Never. (laughing) When did you ever look at the problems that you had and say oh, you know what, I bet there's even like a resource out there for this versus just like you kind of sit there in a cocoon thinking about it and percolating it all by yourself. It's just 'cause you don't know that the resources are there. - Oh, I had one. I think it was my master sergeant. (laughing) - Right, right, exactly, exactly, so and I think, so that's, that is the more longer term thing, is once we get good at collecting and organizing and connecting people, figuring out how to not be passive, where you come to us, and getting better at being active and going out and finding people with needs and saying, did you know? And then they're gonna go oh, crap, I didn't know that, and we'll be like yep, and here's all the resources and the tools and the prior experience that someone else has already brought to the table to help you solve your problem. - Right. - As far as an email, though, I mean, we have an A9Z workflow box, and they can, people can email that. They can go to SharePoint and see the A29 SharePoint site, and there's an A9Z, little, you can click on it and go there, but we're all on the global, so AETC A9Z. - I mean, what an exciting time to be, not only in Air Education and Training Command, but really the air force 'cause this is not just an AETC thing, right? Innovation is something that I think every command knows that they need to embrace with their arms fully around. I mean, it doesn't get much better than this. This is some empowerment. - And that's, the one thing is we don't want people to think that A9Z is only there to help AETC 'cause we're not. We're there for, air force wide to be able to help and help the other MAJCOMs. That's the direction we wanna go, is make this a air force wide change and help everyone. - I think, so with all of us, I think the most exciting thing is the fact that one, we're empowered by leadership to do the work that we're doing, and the fact that we know that the work that we are doing can ultimately affect the rest of the air force is just one of those things that's like, I would've never thought I would've been in a position to have this kind of positive change 'cause every Airman goes through it. What do I mean to the air force, right? You can find a time in your military career where you're like, I'm just one of the guys, right? - Right. - And a lot of younger Airmen, and as most NCOs would know, a lotta younger Airmen have difficulty finding their place in that air force world of how do I affect the bigger mission, and as NCOs, you spend a lotta your time trying to say hey, I know you're doing this little small part, but you're affecting this, and that's when you look at EPRs. That's what it means. Oh, there's the big money. There's the big picture. Yeah, we tie it in to the work. What you're doing at a comm squadron can affect a test squadron over here with engines and whatnot, and so they have a lot of trouble seeing that, so we get to actually live it out, and that is, it's really exciting. I annoy my spouse, who happens to be in the military as well, every day about the work that I do. I come home, and I talk about it, and it's like okay, okay, Sweetheart. I understand, but-- - Well, you have an easier cell than me. My wife thinks I just do social media. Like, well you just, you just look at Facebook all day, so you got an easier cell than me, but I really wanna thank you guys for comin' in today. This was a lot of fun, and again, I can't wait to see how things develop from here, so appreciate your guys' time. - Thanks. - Thank you for having us come out here, Sir. Appreciate it. (swooshing) - So that's a wrap. Tons of great stuff going on in innovation right now. We wanna give a special thank you to Danielle Koehler, Technical Sergeant Michal Maturan, and Staff Sergeant Aaron Parker from the A9Z for stopping by and dropping all the wisdom on us today. Really a great conversation, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. As a reminder, you can follow Air Education and Training Command via social media on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram as well as on the web at www.aetc.af.mil. Thanks for checkin' out the podcast as we dive into the world of recruiting, training, and education. For our entire AETC Public Affairs staff, I'm Dan Hawkins. So long, and we'll talk to you next time on Developing Mach-21 Airmen. (exciting music)