- Roger 48-O-7 approaching runway seven bravo. - The Air Force has announced the creation of a new information operations technical training school. - So, in our business of national security, where our job is to fly, fight, win; we better be masters at this game of innovation. - Air Force basing military training has an updated curriculum with a new focus on readiness and lethality. - This is the Developing Mach-21 Airmen podcast. (intense music) - Hey, everybody! Welcome in to episode six of the Developing Mach-21 Airmen podcast series. Thanks for the subscribe screen or download, however you might be listening in today. If you get a chance to throw some stars or even a review our way, we certainly would appreciate that kind of feedback as well. My name is Dan Hawkins from the Air Education and Training Command Public Affairs Office and your host for this professional development podcast dedicated to bringing Total Force Big "A" Airmen, insight, tips, tricks, and lessons learned from the recruiting, training, and education field. Hard to believe, but we are already on episode number six of the podcast and it's a fun one today. We've got a team of experts here from the Squadron Officer's School at Air University, and they're talking all about how they are flipping the classroom, adopting immersive training including scenario-based learning, virtual reality, augmented reality, mixed reality, and mobile learning into their learning experience space helping to better professionally develop our captains. Ms. Toni Scribner, a doctoral candidate who's spent a ton of time helping develop this new Squadron Officer's School curriculum. As well as Captains Anita Sims and Casey Neville drop by talking about the successes and challenges of adopting some of this immersive technology into the classroom, as well as the thought process that goes into this adoption and integration of these new learning approaches. Ms. Scribner, she talks specifically about the need to think about these changes in terms of the culture as well as scalability in the design as well as the flipping the classroom trend that's happening in education right now. It was really interesting to listen to both Captain Sims and Captain Neville, who are both SOS instructors, who have a lot of time in front of those classes, discuss the excitement level of the students as they participated in or observed the new mixed reality avatar-hosted counseling scenario exercises. A researched-based capability that SOS is pioneering, in that it allows learners to develop their craft in a safe, academic environment in terms of counseling. Something that I was able to see in person at last fall's Air Force Association Conference in National Harbor, and it was a really neat thing to see. So, they're gonna talk a little bit about that, and then we'll also talk about why being an SOS instructor can really help a young company-grade officer grow professionally in ways that they just never imagined. Great conversation today. You definitely don't want to miss it. So, no more suspense, let's get to it, episode six of Developing Mach-21 Airmen right now. - So, Toni, tell us a little bit about yourself. - Sure, thank you, Dan. And thank you for the invitation today. We're really excited to share the things we're doing at SOS. I am an educator by trade. I'm also a retired veteran from the Air Force. Been fortunate enough to be at Air University since 1999. - Wow. - And lucky enough to be in the education training space for the majority of my time active duty and as a civilian employee. - So, what did you actually do while you were on active duty? - I was in medical, so medical training and education for the majority of that time. - Okay. And Captain Neville, we talked a little bit off the podcast, but you said, you know, you're getting an education while you're giving others an education. So, tell us a little bit about yourself. - Yeah, absolutely. Well, I've been in the Air Force for eight years now. I'm a weather officer by trade, so a meteorologist. Since May of '17, I have been at Squadron Officer's School and have taught six classes. And now, I work with the leadership aspect of the curriculum within Squadron Officer's School. - Awesome, and Captain Sims, so interesting background, contracting to SOS instructor. - Yeah, so I've been in the service a little under eight years. I'm a contracting officer, but I started this journey by going to SOS myself. So, directly after leaving, a hot job came through, and I applied the next day and called up and said, "Hey, I want to come back." And six months later, I was an instructor. - Wow, that's interesting. You must have really like SOS. - I did. I saw the value and I wanted to share that value with someone else, so I came back. - Well then, we'll start with you. So, tell us a little bit about SOS as it stands today. There's been a lot of changes over the last few years, especially with course length, but I know we're gonna get into it more a lot with the curriculum. But, tell us where SOS is at today. - So, I will say I started with the five week course. It's currently six and a half weeks. And just seeing the difference between being a student and an instructor, we are definitely making some very good strides. Right now, we have our MRLx, which is our Mixed Learning Reality Experience as well as our Virtual Reality Experiences. From what I can tell, the students are gettin' a lot out of it because they're finding ways to actually tie-in what we're teaching and apply it, and be able to have bigger discussions thereafter, so. - And for those that may not know, what is really the point of our captains going to SOS? What are we hoping they take away when they leave Maxwell at the end of that experience? - It's a leadership school, so we want them to get different leadership perspectives from the curriculum that we give them and from the peers that are there with them as well. Different leadership competencies, those type of things, but also bringing in a bunch of different things from ethics to team building to we're lookin' at, they get some joint warfare type stuff too as well. The reasoning and the deep-type of thinking that they need to make very hard decisions as leaders, but also know how to take care of people from like an emotional intelligence-type standpoint because that's kind of a big thing now that we see in a lot of our stuff that we're teaching; is emotional intelligence and how that ties to leadership and being able to make decisions in very difficult or gray area-type situations. - Right. - And with it being a leadership course, so he kind of spoke to it, but we have four pillars. So, there's reasoning, there's the leadership, there's joint warfare, and there's team building, which is my tier. And like he was saying, once we tie all those things together, it's about the whole person. Because at the end of the day, I will say, Squadron Officer's School is probably that moment in their lives where they're figuring out what type of leader do I want to be. Or is this the point where I may no longer want this as my lifestyle. And so, we can see that through our journals, which pop up in our curriculum as a part of reflecting on self. And so, you kind of see that from them, and then you kind of know, hey, this is what my student's need from me to kind of be that better leader. - Now, I always find it interesting, especially with SOS and I'm sure there's other classes that are like this, but a lot of that facilitation and instruction are done by their peers, fellow captains in the Air Force who've been in about the same time and had roughly the same experiences in different ways. But so, that has to be interesting for you guys as instructors. - It's a little bit scary at first because you don't know what you're going to get, however, I think it's valuable from both sides of the table. For us as instructors, we learn a lot from the students. And we learn from the curriculum to get to the students. And they learn from each other and learn from that curriculum at the same time. So, it's a pretty interesting conversation that we have back and forth. We also, there is a fellowship program if I can talk about that. - Sure, absolutely. - So, about 80% of our faculty is our majors. So, they come to SOS and they teach, and then they go to ACSC for a year afterwards. Or it can be flipped around depending on what type of fellowship program it is. So, the students get instructors that have a breadth of experience within the Air Force, which we can pull out our experiences in the classroom to the students, which then pull out their experiences back to their peers. - So, we'll transition a little bit, and we'll talk to Toni a little bit, about immersive learning, and a little bit about how it's being adopted and integrated into the classroom specifically at Squadron Officer's School. - Sure. We are really excited about immersive learning. It truly gives us the opportunity to take the curriculum beyond four walls. And it also helps us get to the level of taking the objectives and the program outcomes to an application level. It is great when they get the theory, the methodologies, the great examples, and experiences from the faculty members and their peers. That for them to get to get to the application level and apply it in our safe learning environment, is a true gem of an opportunity for the program. So, going down this path of immersive learning, we feel that if we can take the program to an interactive, engaging, and meaningful levels; then learning occurs and the research shows that too. So, as designers, as curriculum managers, as Air Force members, how do we do that in an effective way and truly focus on the student learning experience for their six and a half weeks with us? So, immersive learning has been that target for us and we've been very fortunate to be able to embrace several learning technologies in order to support our direction. - So, some of those learning technologies are a little bit different, and we talked a little bit about this too, but a lot of people sometimes don't understand all the differences with the different technologies that are being utilized. And it's interesting for Squadron Officer's School because you guys really are using a very wide breadth of technology to bring that learning experience into focus. So, maybe you guys can talk a little about what those particular technology tracks are, and I guess we can start with virtual reality. - Sure, sure. And actually, both of our, the virtual reality and the mixed reality, are in Captain Neville's academic chair path. So, with the virtual reality we use a situated leaning experience through scenario-based learning, prescribed scenarios, that the students go through individually. Then, the design for that is, once the students go through the experience, then they go through a debrief which is facilitated by the faculty member. And they tie-in the program outcomes, the learning objectives, and anything that they feel that it would be relevant with where they're at in the program or where they're going in the program. We embrace a lot of autonomy for our faculty to utilize the virtual reality learning experiences to support where their flight is at and where they want to go with their flight. Casey, did you wanna ...? - When the students go through the virtual reality experience, everyone basically has a different experience with the scenario, which is what brings about the different types of talking points that can be brought up during the debrief. So, you get all the different types of learning from different aspects and different angles. Whether it's how you talk to your NCO or your senior airmen, how you actually have that conversation, how you made your decisions. Was there any sort of ethical ties that your pulling on? Was there any gray situations you were thinking about? That type of stuff, and it's really neat to see that come out of the debrief through the different just experiences they go through with that one scenario that we have, that we put them through. - And it's interesting is we talk about the mixed reality learning experiences, you take a scenario but you actually add in the really interesting use of avatar-hosted simulations. And that is, I think, it's a game changer, right? - It is. It definitely is. We actually did a trip to University of Alabama, and I think that was the first time I got to see somebody other than the student respond to it. And it's almost like you're there, you're in the chair. And you're thinking they don't know things about you, but when one of the avatars said, "Hey, "I like those glasses you have on." You're like, "Whoa! How do you know I have on glasses?" You know? You don't expect that and I think the same type of thing happens for the students, when they change the pitch of their voice or they adjust their body. And their body language changes and having someone there that can visibly see that is like, oh, well let me put on my best professional self and handle this a little differently at some times. - 'Cause it matters, right? - Right. - How you handle yourself when you're actually talking to somebody. And the research has shown that you get better learning experience by actually interacting with the avatar then actually human to human because there's certain barriers looking at you and me versus looking at a TV with an avatar on there and talking to that person, you're going through the scenario. And we only put a couple students through each time for each class that goes through. The rest of them sit in the back and watch their peer go through it. And the neat thing is, the learning still occurs with the people watching the situation unfold in front of them. They sit back and like, wow, that was kind of an uncomfortable conversation that they just had. I don't know how I would have handled that. But then, that comes out of the debrief when you bring the students back and talk to them like "How'd you handle the situation? "What'd you think? "How did you do?" And then, you ask somebody else, "What would you have done differently?" And that all comes out into the debrief. And the students a lot of times the feedback on that, for the mixed reality portion is, they all want to go through it. - Right. - We don't have the time to do that, but they really like that experience. It's a conflict resolution piece that they usually don't ever get in the scenarios that we give to them. - Well, it's always interesting because, you know, in the past, before you would have that capability to have that kind of situation, you have almost two students usually sitting across from each other. And, you know, it's hard to get that really real feeling and emotion, but like you mentioned, having somebody say, "Oh, those are nice glasses." And you're like, "Whoa, I don't know this person. "Who just said that?" I mean, it has to be pretty neat. - It is, it definitely is. - So, what was the brainchild behind that? Like how long has this been a part of the curriculum and how did that kind of come to development? - Sure. For, let me go back to the virtual reality, and SOS has integrated, we had an initial prototype about two/three years ago, and then we integrated it operationally about six months after some focus group testing. And then, with the mixed reality, we went through several focus groups with our community of learners and then we grew from there. So, we started using that probably a year and a half ago. And then, we ran a beta test and it has been, I think, overwhelming how well the students have received it. Because, as you shared, the traditional role play when you're in a physical form, the research does show that there's limitations, there's barriers. We have physical barriers that we can't get past and we know that role play is a exceptional educational tool. And so, how do we get past the physical barriers? So, one way to do that is to take it into the virtual space. And the research shows from the University of Central Florida, and others that have joined in on that research, that they were very successful. And the research is based on empathy and it's been over a decade or so that they've been doing this work. We are thankful we're able to take advantage of it and go down this path because before we had to remove role play 'cause it just became ineffective. So, bringing it back, I guess that's part of our story, is that we have the comeback kid with role play as an educational tool. And it is just every time we, we integrate and implement a session, I think we all learn something new too; approaches, how people are receiving it. Almost an internal networking opportunity. Because when supervisors, anybody that has to do any type of counseling or mentoring, you sort of do that one-on-one. And so, you only can model your behavior after the behaviors that you were experienced with. And so, now they get the opportunity with 14 people and a facilitator in a safe environment to try things out, to get different perspectives, and kind of network the ways ahead. And again, with this, the money is in the debrief. The debrief is where the facilitator can tie everything in and we can really enhance components that are strengths and weaknesses within the curriculum as part of this treatment. - So, it's not just virtual and mixed reality, but there's also an augmented reality component to the course as well. - Yes. That's in prototype. So, maybe we'll have to come back again, Dan, and visit with you. - (laughs) Anytime. - Because we are working on that and actually both the captains here, they have components in that space. And that will move forward in the form of utilizing the flipped classroom methodology. And so, we're really looking forward to that. It will be a mobile application and support the learners use of when they're adopting new perspectives and knowledge. And when they come into the flight room, then the conversation will be at another level, as opposed to just introducing new knowledge. - So, kind of that flipped classroom that we talked about a little bit. - Absolutely. - So, it's just so interesting all the changes that are going on. I mean and, you know, part of General Kwast's strategic plan obviously is the use of technology in an immersive way that obviously inspires and develops our Mach-21 Airmen. But when you talk about immersive learning, there are likely some successes and also some challenges, so let's start with the challenges of bringing a lot of this technology into the classroom. What are some of those challenges? - I think initially it was the adoption across the culture. Utilizing technology the way that SOS has adopted, and basically adapted, with immersive learning. Traditionally, we want to teach and we want to be taught the way that we have already been taught and how we learn. So, that's generally the Socratic Method in some form or fashion or just reading books. Well, now we have the digital environment and learner's really want to get to the application level. So, kind of breaking through the risk adverse culture of utilizing technology in a daily capacity as opposed to it just accessing a web page or a video. So, it is, it is like a, that culture change that we would want to keep evolving and to be open-minded about the adoption of the technology. I think another thing for us was, and this is probably more from a technical perspective, is, and Casey mentioned some of this, was that as we introduced the mixed reality learning experience two people, by our design, two people within our flights go through the simulation, and then all the other students are observing. Now, in debrief they're all engaged, and then they all share their perspectives. But the challenge is scale. We have approximately 4200 students that go through our program a year and approximately 70 faculty. So, how do we scale that to support each individual learner? Even though in some capacity they're all in learning mode when the simulations are running, but how do we scale that? So, for programs like ours there will be some challenges to overcome with that. - Well, and I just think that's kind of a thing that's across the board whether you're talking about the education and training arena or probably even out in the operational Air Force right now is that scaling and how do we implement this across big Air Force. So, definitely some challenges there. And, you know, culture, I think, is always one of those things that, you know, we have to defeat sometimes to get better. - You said that very nicely. - Well, you know, it's something our leaders have readily acknowledged and we all know that that is a situation where we have to get better. - Yes, yes. - And so, I think we're all striving to do that every day and see how we can be better. But we talked about some of the challenges, but what are some of the SOS successes that you guys have seen on these fronts? - So, as Toni was talking, I was thinking, you know, some of the challenges that she mentioned are actually some of our successes. Because of those things where we're having to take in account the different way people learn, and the different ways that they can learn, has actually I think contributed to our success. Because we teach them, you know, when you're talking to an audience you need to analyze who's in the audience et cetera, et cetera. Well, you also have to understand how people learn differently. Some people want to write on the board, some people just need to read it, some people just need to see it. But we're giving them all of that and more with this, so I think that's a success. - That, and that's kind of in line with what General Kwast talks about with failing forward and learning as much from, perhaps, some of your challenges or not so successful runs. You see, that was the PC for Toni. (laughing) But you learn a lot from those kinds of things, and like you said, great perspective on being successful. - Absolutely. - We've taken a step forward in trying to implement these new technologies and new ways of teaching for the learner in a faster way than maybe how it was done before, which means, yeah, sometimes we may fail a little bit, but that's where the feedback comes in, you know, from the students. It comes back from the actual faculty and we make it better, we can make it work. And if it doesn't, we'll move on to something else. And that's kind of the mentality of how things are going now, to try to be innovative, right, in the Air Force. We want to build these people, build these leaders, build these students, and what's the best way we can go about that? Well, we have what we know. We also need to put in this new stuff as things change, this new information comes across as there new studies that are done about how to make learning better and more effective. - So, in line with that, we talked a little bit about what advice you would have for teams across the recruit training and education enterprise that are maybe trying to look at how they're doing business in the educational space and implementing technology and all these changes to your curriculum, and while at the same time balancing I still gotta get this course through while I'm thinking about the course next year. So, you know, can you talk a little bit about that and how you manage all of that. - So, I would say just once a team begins to start their process or their path to innovation, of course everybody's gonna take the time to learn about it. They're gonna educate themselves, so they'll know, hey, these are milestones that we're actually achieving. But I think sometimes it may be difficult to put those things that you've learned into practice because while you're learning you're gonna learn that there are different types of failures, so they're gonna take place and what types of successes are gonna take place. And so, being willing to acknowledge that while your actually implementing those innovative steps, I guess, is a necessity. You have to be willing to say, "Okay, "I knew this was gonna happen. "How do I mitigate this? "How do I smooth this out?" And I think that helps you continue on with innovation even after you get to that point where you failed for the first time. - Wow, that's really great. (laughing) That's hard to follow up. - I'm telling it, I'm telling it. I would just say that we're all given opportunities and we can let the opportunity pass us up, or we can pass the opportunity, right? Or we can embrace it. And so, I think for SOS at this time the stars have aligned and provided us with opportunity to introduce this to our program and to 4200 captains a year in many different facets. But one thing I do want folks to realize is that this doesn't just come from the SOS faculty, the SOS leadership, the AU leadership. This comes from the learners. We take feedback very seriously and if students have a little bit of time to share with us their experience and they have ideas, and they want to take something to the next level, we take that very seriously. And we see how we can incorporate that appropriately for the next run. That is very important that we focus on the learner and their whole SOS experience. - So, almost last question. Trends in education, we talked a little bit, but we really didn't go too deep into it. But we talked about the flipped classroom methodology and that's not just a trend in Department of Defense level education, but that's just a trend in education. So, what does that really mean, for people who may not be as familiar with education. What does flipping the classroom mean? - Sure. - Oh, that sounded like a curve ball almost. - No. No, no, no, no, no, no. - I was waiting for my teammates, see if they wanted to jump in. So, the flipped classroom offers an opportunity to take knowledge-level materials, even new knowledge, and just put it in front of your actual face-to-face time or your classroom time. And so, what we're doing is we're taking several treatments of what we're doing in the course and we're making it very interactive and immersive. And that will happen before they show up for class time that day. So, we've all done homework, this is just interactive homework and the introduction of new knowledge because we really want that face-to-face time to be very rich. We want to get to some deeper perspectives that maybe we didn't have time to get to. Because I do know probably the most of our faculty, as soon as they get in the classroom, they introduce new knowledge, and they're able to get to deep conversations. Sometimes time is up and they really don't get there. So, by flipping the classroom and using that methodology we're able to take the knowledge-level information and put them on a journey. And then, from that journey, when they come back to the classroom face-to-face, we can get to a deeper perspective and even an analytical perspective in the discussions that we have with the learners. - What's exciting about that is we know that if we can get to the deeper understanding actually happen in the classroom, whether it's through case studies, along those lines, or videos; we know that the students talk more about that information outside of the classroom. So, it's getting further than how we used to 'cause if you're just introducing material at the beginning of the class, and then you're just getting into the deeper conversation, and then they talk about it outside of class. Well, you still may have hit some of the learning that you were looking for, but if you get to the deeper stuff in the classroom, you're really gonna hit the learning when they get outside 'cause they do talk about it. They talk to each other about it 'cause they're interested. They're critically thinking about it. They're curious and that's how you create the learning. - Absolutely. Yeah, 'cause we do know and research shows that learning just doesn't occur in formal environments. Probably most deep learning and insights come from informal learning, and that's not face-to-face, not in four walls. - And I think that's a great point. So, last question, and then I'll turn it over to our two instructors. So, if you had to give a recruiting pitch to a captain who may be like I don't know about going to SOS and being an instructor, what's it like? - It's a more pleasant experience than I thought it would be. I mean, to be completely honest, you know, I've never taught before. I think I would've liked to do it at some point. But in the military, in front of captains, in front of pilots, and lawyers, and nurses, and there's so many different backgrounds; what are they gonna think a captain's teaching them? But I can, I can teach them leadership. Our curriculum is built in such a way that we learn a lot and we can bring that out in them. But they bring a lot out in me as well, which I think enables me to be a very good instructor. And in the end, I think that will make me a good leader down the road in the Air Force. In that sense, it's a very valuable assignment, at least in my eyes. - So, I guess I'm kinda the geek on that 'cause I told you I went to SOS, and then I applied to work at SOS. But, I mean, basically everything Casey's said and just the fact that we spend a lot of time leveraging each other's experiences. And it's not so much that we're there to show them how much we know, but it's to make sure we facilitating an environment or creating an environment that they're able to share with each other what they know. And I think the growth happens there. And then, you're sitting there, you know, with whatever experience you have as an instructor, and you're just like, "Wow, that happens in the Air Force. "Let me take a note, so I can bring it up in my next class." You know? So, it's definitely- - The teacher becomes the student. - Right. - So, it's definitely a rewarding experience because when I can go back and look at my student's and say, "You know what? "I've seen some type of growth." Because the same thing that we're teaching them about growth, and developing teams, and being able to reason; you see that pattern through evaluation. And then, you can think, I have a little bit to do with that. You can only hope that they'll go back and try to do the same within their own organization. - There's no other place where you're gonna get that diversity of that type of experience. - Right. - Than a job like this, right? And it makes you a better person too overall. You analyze yourself. - Exactly. - 'Cause you realize you have to do the same thing to the students and the students have to do that for themselves at the same time. So, you're almost a student even though you're an instructor at the same time. Each and every class is different, 14 different personalities. It's a lot of fun. It's never the same thing over and over. - Not to mention you're connection power just goes through the roof, right? Because you know somebody everywhere. - You do. And, I mean, like he said with the group of 14 every single time, it's like you can know the material, but you have to adjust because of who's in your classroom. And that helps you grow and adjust because now you're doing the same balancing act that they have to do everyday with each other. - Well, I really appreciate you guys' time. This was a lot of fun. And like Toni said, I guess we're gonna have to revisit at some point, right? (giggling) - Absolutely. - So, thank you all. - All right, thank you. - Thank you. - Some very cool stuff happening at Air University at Squadron Officer's School, and not just there but all over the campus of AU there at Maxwell Air Force Base. We want to say thank you to Ms. Scribner, Captain Sims, and Captain Neville for dropping by our offices. They were here in town at JBSA-Randolph for a learning consortium and they took time out of their schedule to come over and talk with us about all the exciting changes happening. As a reminder, you can follow Air Education and Training Command via social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. You can also check out our website www.aetc.af.mil. Thanks for checking out the podcast as we dive into the world of recruiting, training, and education. For an entire AETC Public Affairs staff, I'm Dan Hawkins. So long. We'll talk to you next time on Developing Mach-21 Airmen. (intense music)