WEBVTT 00:00.940 --> 00:03.330 Good afternoon everybody . Welcome to 00:03.330 --> 00:05.600 another edition of Real Talk . I'm your 00:05.600 --> 00:07.600 host . Lieutenant General brad Webb 00:07.600 --> 00:09.433 Commander of their education and 00:09.433 --> 00:11.267 Training command . And today our 00:11.267 --> 00:13.211 special guest is Brigadier General 00:13.211 --> 00:15.100 Brenda Cardi . Er Our incoming or 00:15.110 --> 00:17.750 really imminently incoming A three or 00:17.750 --> 00:20.110 director of operations here at A . E . 00:20.110 --> 00:23.650 T . C . Uh as you would expect , there 00:23.650 --> 00:26.150 has always been a lot of time . That is 00:26.160 --> 00:28.610 a lot of circumstances that have 00:28.610 --> 00:30.666 occurred in the time since we've had 00:30.666 --> 00:32.832 our last edition of Real Talk . Um And 00:32.832 --> 00:34.880 so I really I really want to circle 00:34.880 --> 00:38.130 back to uh why we do the real talks and 00:38.130 --> 00:40.241 why we have and what is our center of 00:40.241 --> 00:42.241 gravity And of course the center of 00:42.241 --> 00:45.000 gravity for all of the conversations 00:45.000 --> 00:48.130 that we have with respect to uh our D . 00:48.130 --> 00:50.190 N . A . Portfolio is it's about the 00:50.190 --> 00:52.134 mission , it's about mission ready 00:52.140 --> 00:54.510 mission effectiveness and readiness . 00:54.740 --> 00:57.073 And also it's about dignity and respect . 00:57.740 --> 00:59.684 Let's remember the charge that the 00:59.684 --> 01:01.740 chief gave us a year ago which is we 01:01.740 --> 01:03.740 need to own this d any situation we 01:03.740 --> 01:06.040 need to engage in small groups creates 01:06.050 --> 01:09.300 a safe space and listen or seek to 01:09.300 --> 01:12.640 understand . So there have been several 01:12.640 --> 01:14.751 key events that have happened here in 01:14.751 --> 01:16.918 the last several months , the first of 01:16.918 --> 01:18.973 which is the second racial disparity 01:18.973 --> 01:21.240 review . Uh you'll recall that in the 01:21.240 --> 01:23.570 first review . It was very much focused 01:23.570 --> 01:25.626 on an african american portfolio and 01:25.626 --> 01:28.530 specifically with respect young african 01:28.530 --> 01:31.720 american male population . Uh Since 01:31.720 --> 01:33.720 then we have now done a review that 01:33.720 --> 01:36.830 includes a . P . I are asian , american , 01:36.830 --> 01:40.100 pacific islander group , hispanic and 01:40.100 --> 01:42.550 also gender . Those results have been 01:42.560 --> 01:45.590 tabulated . Once again , we've had 01:45.590 --> 01:48.780 thousands of responses and we expect 01:48.780 --> 01:50.669 that the results will become very 01:50.669 --> 01:52.836 shortly . The other thing that I think 01:52.836 --> 01:54.502 is worthy of a few minutes of 01:54.502 --> 01:56.502 discussion are these things that we 01:56.502 --> 01:59.250 call bog or barrier analysis working 01:59.250 --> 02:02.050 groups , We've had several in the past 02:02.050 --> 02:04.320 but they've actually been evolving over 02:04.320 --> 02:06.542 time and really quickly . What I'd like 02:06.542 --> 02:09.070 to do is kind of articulate the boggs 02:09.080 --> 02:11.970 that I have been established inside our 02:11.970 --> 02:14.880 Air Force . There's best which is the 02:14.880 --> 02:18.600 black employment strategy team debt , 02:18.610 --> 02:20.960 which is the disability action team 02:21.740 --> 02:23.790 heat , which is the hispanic 02:23.790 --> 02:26.890 empowerment action team I net , which 02:26.890 --> 02:29.260 is indigenous nations equality team 02:30.040 --> 02:32.630 packed , which is a pacific islander 02:32.630 --> 02:35.750 asian american community team , wit 02:36.240 --> 02:40.140 women's initiatives team And lastly and 02:40.150 --> 02:42.180 really we're doing this in honor of 02:42.190 --> 02:45.310 pride month here in June one which is 02:45.310 --> 02:48.450 the L G B T Q plus initiative team . 02:49.240 --> 02:51.351 So today that's going to be the topic 02:51.351 --> 02:54.420 of this real talk and uh Brenda really 02:54.420 --> 02:56.364 I think this is probably really an 02:56.364 --> 02:58.476 excellent place for us to start . Can 02:58.476 --> 03:01.220 you talk to us about the bog or the 03:01.220 --> 03:03.498 very analysis working group lit please ? 03:03.498 --> 03:05.770 Yes , sir . Thanks . Um and just a 03:05.770 --> 03:08.640 shout out to my friends in the wit uh 03:08.650 --> 03:11.240 doing this for you . So thank you . Uh 03:11.250 --> 03:13.990 so by way of letting folks know what 03:14.000 --> 03:17.230 these teams do is that they identify 03:17.230 --> 03:20.460 for senior deaf leadership . What are 03:20.460 --> 03:22.850 some of the barriers to hiring and 03:22.850 --> 03:24.906 retaining and having the best talent 03:24.906 --> 03:27.128 that we can , but also making sure that 03:27.128 --> 03:29.480 we understand the places where we might 03:29.480 --> 03:31.647 be creating uncomfortable environments 03:31.647 --> 03:33.950 or having language that doesn't work 03:33.950 --> 03:36.010 for all of the airmen that represent 03:36.010 --> 03:38.950 our Air Force and in the case of lit 03:38.960 --> 03:42.610 for the gay , bisexual transgender 03:42.620 --> 03:46.150 queer plus , um , uh , communities and 03:46.150 --> 03:48.206 our airmen . That's what little hope 03:48.340 --> 03:51.520 wants to do . And we have several lines 03:51.520 --> 03:53.520 of effort that we work on . I'll go 03:53.520 --> 03:55.853 into those a little bit , but it's also , 03:55.853 --> 03:58.440 it's kind of fun . The acronym , the 03:58.450 --> 04:00.506 team gets to come up with an acronym 04:00.506 --> 04:02.561 and it needs to be meaningful and it 04:02.561 --> 04:05.670 needs to represent . But it also uh in 04:05.670 --> 04:08.980 some ways can be how you want to show 04:08.980 --> 04:11.202 the world what you think of your team . 04:11.202 --> 04:14.020 And for us in lit , we want to shine 04:14.020 --> 04:16.187 light and we want to keep the path lit 04:16.187 --> 04:18.410 for not only those who have come before 04:18.410 --> 04:21.140 us and have struggled mightily , but 04:21.140 --> 04:23.460 also where we're headed into the future 04:23.640 --> 04:26.760 and shine the light on that . So 04:27.640 --> 04:30.090 lit as you were saying is is fairly new 04:30.100 --> 04:33.400 and my good friend and a general 04:33.400 --> 04:36.150 officer , I respect . Uh Major General 04:36.160 --> 04:39.450 lee A lot of lot of back . She has done 04:39.450 --> 04:42.490 tremendous work um with the lit team 04:42.500 --> 04:45.200 and brought together uh We have several , 04:45.210 --> 04:47.350 a couple 100 airmen I think now and 04:47.440 --> 04:50.250 spouses and allies in the team and it 04:50.250 --> 04:53.120 continues to grow . So we appreciate 04:53.130 --> 04:55.130 the leadership of the Air force 04:55.140 --> 04:58.260 enabling us to have this group . So 04:58.640 --> 05:00.751 some folks would might want to know , 05:00.751 --> 05:02.918 you know , what are some of the issues 05:02.918 --> 05:05.140 that are specific before you get that ? 05:05.140 --> 05:04.620 I want to get on one piece because I 05:04.620 --> 05:06.676 don't want the moment to go by . But 05:06.676 --> 05:08.676 you and I had an excellent back and 05:08.676 --> 05:12.580 forth with respect to the acronym L G 05:12.580 --> 05:16.120 B T Q plus . And you know , of course 05:16.120 --> 05:20.120 my really uninformed perspective was in 05:20.120 --> 05:22.176 fact , I think I said , hey Brenda , 05:22.176 --> 05:24.287 there's enough letters there now that 05:24.287 --> 05:23.740 you know , we should probably need to 05:23.910 --> 05:26.077 spell out something , so it's a little 05:26.077 --> 05:27.966 bit easier to remember . But your 05:27.966 --> 05:30.188 response was actually very insightful . 05:30.188 --> 05:29.280 Would you mind sharing that with us ? 05:29.290 --> 05:31.450 Thanks . Yes sir , I would love to 05:31.450 --> 05:33.561 share this with you and a lot . I get 05:33.561 --> 05:35.672 that question a lot . What are , what 05:35.672 --> 05:37.894 are all the letters and why ? So many ? 05:37.894 --> 05:40.950 I can boil it down . 21 thing really , 05:40.960 --> 05:44.620 it's the straight and non straight or 05:44.630 --> 05:46.540 heterosexual and non heterosexual 05:46.540 --> 05:49.280 communities and how not just airmen , 05:49.280 --> 05:51.190 but how society and people within 05:51.190 --> 05:55.140 society define and gender and what 05:55.140 --> 05:58.140 we , what we are seeing as our society 05:58.140 --> 06:00.250 evolves and people are able to talk 06:00.250 --> 06:02.028 more about themselves and their 06:02.028 --> 06:04.710 families and how they live their lives 06:04.710 --> 06:07.740 and create family and community is that 06:07.750 --> 06:10.160 there's a whole spectrum of how people 06:10.160 --> 06:12.271 define themselves and others in terms 06:12.271 --> 06:16.220 of and gender . So the letters 06:16.230 --> 06:19.400 actually are a celebration in a way of 06:19.400 --> 06:22.160 all of the diverse communities within 06:22.540 --> 06:26.470 the non straight communities and so , 06:27.050 --> 06:29.910 gay , bisexual , transgender and 06:29.920 --> 06:33.290 queer and plus is uh , there's 06:33.300 --> 06:35.590 intersects , there's a sexual , there's 06:35.590 --> 06:38.150 pan sexual . I mean there are just any 06:38.150 --> 06:40.039 number of ways that folks defined 06:40.039 --> 06:43.940 themselves and live their lives 06:43.940 --> 06:46.150 to the fullest . I like the plus 06:46.150 --> 06:49.170 because it says that it's not limiting 06:49.180 --> 06:52.690 their , there can be more as we all 06:52.690 --> 06:54.968 decide how we want to define ourselves . 06:55.040 --> 06:57.950 Um , the interesting letter is also the 06:57.950 --> 07:01.080 queue , right , queer and in the past 07:01.090 --> 07:03.860 as we all know , queer was a derogatory 07:03.860 --> 07:07.650 term . And the LGBTQ community 07:08.040 --> 07:10.740 over the past few years has decided to 07:10.750 --> 07:13.160 take that term back and own it and turn 07:13.160 --> 07:15.382 it into something that's celebrated and 07:15.382 --> 07:18.450 something that's used , um , as a term 07:18.460 --> 07:21.950 to open up an entire , um , culture 07:21.960 --> 07:24.127 behind that and thoughts . And there's 07:24.127 --> 07:26.349 academic work behind it in research . I 07:26.349 --> 07:28.238 mean , it's really kind of a rich 07:28.238 --> 07:30.404 environment and turn behind that . And 07:30.404 --> 07:33.860 so that's why and with lit , we decided 07:33.870 --> 07:37.140 to definitely put the Q in there and 07:37.140 --> 07:40.900 the plus um so that we can capture 07:40.910 --> 07:44.690 as many airmen as we can today but also 07:44.690 --> 07:47.060 leave it open to chairman of the future . 07:47.440 --> 07:50.750 Um So yeah really insightful and I 07:50.750 --> 07:52.750 appreciate that you shared that the 07:52.750 --> 07:54.861 other day and ensuring at this time . 07:54.861 --> 07:56.972 Yeah , so okay so you do have quite a 07:56.972 --> 08:00.040 bit of uh an agenda or initiatives 08:00.050 --> 08:02.410 within the lit portfolio . Could you 08:02.420 --> 08:05.590 describe some of those forces and as a 08:05.600 --> 08:07.711 barrier analysis working group team , 08:07.711 --> 08:09.711 you're required to have initiatives 08:09.711 --> 08:12.720 objectives , a vision and you have to 08:12.730 --> 08:16.310 report on that and we hold meetings and 08:16.310 --> 08:18.310 and we're accountable to how are we 08:18.310 --> 08:20.532 going to pursue these . So the big ones 08:20.532 --> 08:23.240 that we're looking at right now , our 08:23.250 --> 08:25.630 medical issues issues around 08:25.640 --> 08:28.860 transgender airmen , education 08:28.870 --> 08:31.500 particularly language and how we 08:31.500 --> 08:35.210 interact as senior leaders or how we do 08:35.210 --> 08:38.930 things like marketing um and uh data 08:38.940 --> 08:41.162 because if you're gonna if you're gonna 08:41.162 --> 08:43.051 determine that you have a barrier 08:43.051 --> 08:45.051 whether you have a barrier or not , 08:45.051 --> 08:46.884 it's good to have data behind it 08:46.884 --> 08:48.718 because we all have anecdotes or 08:48.718 --> 08:50.496 stories or something that we're 08:50.496 --> 08:52.662 familiar with where we can say oh yeah 08:52.662 --> 08:54.773 that happened at this time or in this 08:54.773 --> 08:56.940 unit and that helps inform us where to 08:56.940 --> 08:59.320 look . But if you want to really 08:59.320 --> 09:02.010 identify barriers and work through them 09:02.020 --> 09:05.520 by changing policy , changing law , you 09:05.520 --> 09:08.100 know in the case of your LGBTQ Plus 09:08.540 --> 09:10.707 community , there's been a few changes 09:10.707 --> 09:13.800 in law um or where resources could be 09:13.810 --> 09:15.977 better we put , you need to be able to 09:15.977 --> 09:18.254 put the data behind it . So we do that . 09:18.254 --> 09:20.143 And then another issue that we're 09:20.143 --> 09:22.254 looking at is um working a little bit 09:22.254 --> 09:24.310 right now with the Office of General 09:24.310 --> 09:27.030 Counsel around um senior leader 09:27.030 --> 09:29.650 security and I'll talk about that a 09:29.650 --> 09:32.000 little bit in a second . But if I can 09:32.000 --> 09:34.222 kinda , I'll just go backwards a little 09:34.222 --> 09:35.944 bit and talk about some of the 09:35.944 --> 09:38.000 initiatives are examples of , okay , 09:38.000 --> 09:40.167 why did you choose these as as some of 09:40.167 --> 09:42.260 their um uh , things that they're 09:42.260 --> 09:46.170 working on the medical one . The that 09:46.170 --> 09:48.059 also ties in with the transgender 09:48.059 --> 09:49.948 airman . And what are transgender 09:49.948 --> 09:52.059 airmen are are going through in terms 09:52.059 --> 09:55.980 of care to medical resources . Um , 09:55.990 --> 09:58.620 and in some cases , transgender airmen 09:58.620 --> 10:00.620 can still be turned down by medical 10:00.620 --> 10:03.010 providers . So imagine just trying to 10:03.010 --> 10:05.066 get the care that you would normally 10:05.066 --> 10:07.200 get and being told no , we won't see 10:07.200 --> 10:09.311 you . So we're looking at that is one 10:09.311 --> 10:11.589 of the transgender medical initiatives . 10:11.589 --> 10:13.800 The other thing that's a big deal is 10:13.810 --> 10:16.410 access to reproductive support . So if 10:16.410 --> 10:18.930 you want to have a family and you're 10:18.930 --> 10:21.570 going to use reproductive support 10:21.580 --> 10:23.858 because if you're in the same marriage , 10:23.858 --> 10:25.969 then you do in vitro fertilization or 10:25.969 --> 10:27.969 you do surrogacy or something along 10:27.969 --> 10:31.500 those lines . And um , it's interesting 10:31.500 --> 10:33.950 because say you have a same female 10:33.950 --> 10:36.172 couple and they want to have Children . 10:36.440 --> 10:39.560 Well , lots of couples do you know , in 10:39.560 --> 10:43.530 vitro fertilization or methods that can 10:43.530 --> 10:46.660 get get you on your road to have a 10:46.670 --> 10:50.530 family and in the case of a same female 10:50.530 --> 10:53.400 couple , if they were to access care to 10:53.400 --> 10:55.810 go into the military system and say , 10:55.820 --> 10:58.430 okay , we want to have a baby . Okay , 10:58.440 --> 11:00.662 well which one of you is going to carry 11:00.662 --> 11:02.718 a baby ? Okay . So this this girl is 11:02.718 --> 11:04.829 going to be the one who will have the 11:04.829 --> 11:07.270 pregnancy and carry the baby . Fine . 11:07.280 --> 11:09.180 The military system knows how to 11:09.180 --> 11:11.590 recognize her and put her through the 11:11.590 --> 11:14.080 care that she needs . But the other 11:14.080 --> 11:16.160 partner , the other female , uh the 11:16.170 --> 11:19.000 military , um we're working on this 11:19.010 --> 11:21.180 didn't have language for that or a way 11:21.180 --> 11:25.080 to identify what that other spouse 11:25.130 --> 11:28.240 is . And so there have been examples in 11:28.240 --> 11:30.750 the past where the military has said , 11:30.750 --> 11:32.417 well , we don't have a way to 11:32.417 --> 11:34.740 categorize you . So we're going to just 11:34.740 --> 11:37.560 consider you the sterile male . 11:37.940 --> 11:41.620 And so it's like and she's 11:41.620 --> 11:43.970 all well , okay , I mean , how does 11:43.970 --> 11:46.540 that work ? Right ? And it gets it gets 11:46.540 --> 11:49.180 even more complex when you go through 11:49.180 --> 11:52.980 these processes as the female sterile 11:52.980 --> 11:55.202 male , you still get asked questions on 11:55.202 --> 11:58.490 a lot of forms about um you know , did 11:58.490 --> 12:00.601 you have these tests and how did they 12:00.601 --> 12:02.934 come back ? And it's like , no I didn't , 12:02.934 --> 12:05.046 you know didn't have the test because 12:05.046 --> 12:07.157 there's no reason to have a test . So 12:07.157 --> 12:07.120 it just gets really kind of convoluted . 12:07.130 --> 12:09.720 Um The other thing that's interesting 12:09.720 --> 12:12.020 on the medical side too is when you ask 12:12.020 --> 12:14.298 a same couple and you go in for your P . 12:14.298 --> 12:16.409 H . A . Or something and they ask you 12:16.409 --> 12:18.464 what are your forms of birth control 12:18.464 --> 12:20.576 And there there isn't one on the form 12:20.576 --> 12:24.450 so that says same marriage . So there's 12:24.450 --> 12:27.490 a lot of heteronormative language 12:27.500 --> 12:30.070 that's used or forms or just updating 12:30.070 --> 12:33.120 for options on the medical side . Uh As 12:33.120 --> 12:36.880 one example in the education side this 12:36.880 --> 12:39.710 is talking about giving resources and 12:39.710 --> 12:41.980 language to our airmen . Especially to 12:41.980 --> 12:44.258 our leaders about how to talk about it . 12:44.258 --> 12:46.424 What does what does the acronym mean ? 12:46.424 --> 12:48.880 And how do the individual parts of that 12:48.880 --> 12:51.470 acronym where do they come together ? 12:51.480 --> 12:54.030 Where do they diverge ? And how can 12:54.030 --> 12:56.440 leaders have be equipped with a 12:56.440 --> 12:58.607 language that helps them talk to their 12:58.607 --> 13:02.520 airmen ? And um some examples of that 13:02.530 --> 13:06.420 are , for instance , when the 13:06.430 --> 13:08.374 uh chairman of Family Writing this 13:08.374 --> 13:10.708 holds a class , they may say , you know , 13:10.708 --> 13:12.710 daddy and daughter class . And if 13:12.710 --> 13:15.160 you're in the same female couple , well 13:15.170 --> 13:18.740 there's no you in that phrase or , you 13:18.740 --> 13:21.270 know , mommy and preschoolers . And 13:21.280 --> 13:23.447 it's okay . It's not to say to get rid 13:23.447 --> 13:25.960 of that language . It's to look at ways 13:25.960 --> 13:28.670 to have inclusive language That doesn't 13:28.680 --> 13:30.680 make folks who don't fit that 13:30.690 --> 13:34.540 particular uh , category feel okay . 13:34.550 --> 13:38.250 I remember my spouse an and I , we 13:38.250 --> 13:40.960 were wing command couple at Kirtland 13:41.340 --> 13:43.860 and there was a marriage retreat . 13:44.640 --> 13:46.800 That's great . Let's go to a marriage 13:46.800 --> 13:48.689 retreat . Well , we picked up the 13:48.689 --> 13:50.800 pamphlet and we looked at it , it was 13:50.800 --> 13:52.967 straight couples . But we also noticed 13:52.967 --> 13:55.460 it was straight white couples . There 13:55.460 --> 13:57.910 were no biracial multiracial couples . 13:57.910 --> 14:00.243 There were , you know , no same couples . 14:00.243 --> 14:03.350 And it's not that they were trying to 14:03.360 --> 14:06.220 sometimes and sometimes you're called 14:06.230 --> 14:09.790 microaggressions in a way or um where 14:09.790 --> 14:11.457 you're trying to do something 14:11.457 --> 14:13.512 meaningful , but the language or the 14:13.512 --> 14:15.568 way you present it just falls flat . 14:15.568 --> 14:17.679 And so we're trying to identify those 14:17.679 --> 14:19.790 and bring those forward . Um you have 14:19.790 --> 14:21.679 an agenda . I mean it's a healthy 14:21.679 --> 14:23.790 initiative . It is a batch of it is , 14:23.790 --> 14:25.901 it's to make sure that our airmen are 14:25.901 --> 14:28.123 are doing well . So um the last thing I 14:28.123 --> 14:30.234 want to talk about real quick on this 14:30.234 --> 14:32.179 is also talking with the Office of 14:32.179 --> 14:31.840 General Counsel on Senior Leader 14:31.840 --> 14:35.160 Security . Because the LGBTQ Plus 14:35.160 --> 14:37.450 community , as everybody is aware of 14:37.740 --> 14:41.250 off is often the target of harassment , 14:41.340 --> 14:44.470 um hate and threats . And our senior 14:44.470 --> 14:46.440 leaders are getting that in the 14:46.440 --> 14:48.607 military , not just general officers , 14:48.607 --> 14:50.496 but Wing Commander's uh and other 14:50.496 --> 14:53.570 commanders who are being allies of the 14:53.570 --> 14:55.840 LGBTQ Plus community or are part of it 14:55.850 --> 14:58.460 and are speaking out and leading airmen . 14:59.040 --> 15:01.220 In fact , this week , I was at Keesler 15:01.220 --> 15:04.310 Air Force Base for a pride event and 15:04.320 --> 15:07.140 the event there was fantastic and the 15:07.140 --> 15:09.196 Wing commander , Colonel Blackwell , 15:09.740 --> 15:11.740 did a terrific job and she has been 15:11.740 --> 15:13.796 doing these initiatives and talks as 15:13.796 --> 15:16.280 well for the past year and a half . And 15:16.290 --> 15:18.512 for the first time in a year and a half 15:18.512 --> 15:20.679 holding these events , she had to have 15:20.679 --> 15:22.910 armed security forces come in and clear 15:22.910 --> 15:25.120 the areas and then also be present for 15:25.120 --> 15:27.850 the panel and the talks because of the 15:27.850 --> 15:30.140 threats that she had heard of and they 15:30.140 --> 15:32.760 had received because of this particular 15:32.770 --> 15:36.390 um subject . So we're working 15:36.400 --> 15:39.890 to try to identify ways that we can 15:39.900 --> 15:42.810 look at who is , who is threatening , 15:42.820 --> 15:44.764 what's going on with that and then 15:44.764 --> 15:48.050 mitigate it and address it . So really 15:48.050 --> 15:50.240 interesting kind of spectrum and tons 15:50.240 --> 15:52.073 actually , you know , it kind of 15:52.073 --> 15:54.240 precluded the the other question I was 15:54.240 --> 15:57.470 gonna ask along that lines was uh do 15:57.470 --> 15:59.800 the boggs kind of compare notes and how 15:59.810 --> 16:01.810 different are the agendas . But you 16:01.810 --> 16:04.120 just laid out that uh there may be some 16:04.130 --> 16:06.580 similar ground there but there is tons 16:06.590 --> 16:09.830 of unplowed ground period 16:09.840 --> 16:12.870 certainly within lit that you just laid 16:12.870 --> 16:15.080 out . Sure . And I think the language 16:15.080 --> 16:17.240 one is definitely one that can go 16:17.240 --> 16:20.020 across the teams because that's 16:20.020 --> 16:22.490 important . Uh and the whole education 16:22.490 --> 16:24.980 piece Is definitely one . So yes sir . 16:25.000 --> 16:27.740 Yes . So Brenda , if we could shift 16:27.740 --> 16:30.170 gears just a little bit . You and I 16:30.170 --> 16:32.392 have known each other literally decades 16:32.840 --> 16:36.690 but suffice to say our experiences in 16:36.690 --> 16:39.350 the military probably even though we're 16:39.350 --> 16:42.160 both special operators by trade 16:42.640 --> 16:45.910 probably couldn't be more desperate . I 16:45.920 --> 16:48.320 was wondering if you would share with 16:48.320 --> 16:50.680 us ? Kind of your journey ? If you 16:50.680 --> 16:54.240 would . Yes , sir , I will . And most 16:54.240 --> 16:56.910 of my journey was under . Don't ask . 16:56.910 --> 16:59.080 Don't tell . And it's been an 16:59.080 --> 17:01.191 interesting journey because I came in 17:01.191 --> 17:03.600 at the time when women in combat , uh , 17:03.610 --> 17:05.910 that was being overturned and women 17:05.910 --> 17:08.021 were allowed to come in combat . Um , 17:08.021 --> 17:10.132 and also don't don't ask , don't tell 17:10.132 --> 17:12.770 was in place or put in place and then 17:12.780 --> 17:16.020 was in place for years . And so , um , 17:16.030 --> 17:19.350 I when I first came into the Air Force , 17:19.360 --> 17:21.420 um , kind of being here is a special 17:21.420 --> 17:23.840 operator and talking about my spouse , 17:23.840 --> 17:26.007 my wife and Harrington would have been 17:26.007 --> 17:29.720 impossible . So being here is 17:29.760 --> 17:32.490 it's really special . So , thank you 17:32.490 --> 17:34.823 for this opportunity to talk about this . 17:35.240 --> 17:37.518 Um , in my early years under don't ask . 17:37.518 --> 17:39.629 Don't tell . And I know I speak for a 17:39.629 --> 17:39.470 lot of my friends when I talk about 17:39.470 --> 17:41.450 this . Uh , by the way , we're 17:41.450 --> 17:43.672 celebrating the 10th anniversary of the 17:43.672 --> 17:46.770 repeal in 2011 . Uh , we lived really 17:46.770 --> 17:48.992 compartmented lives because don't ask . 17:48.992 --> 17:52.180 Don't tell was an interesting policy in 17:52.180 --> 17:55.770 that it allows you to be in . But 17:55.940 --> 17:58.440 you just couldn't say anything . And 17:58.450 --> 18:00.672 people think , well , you just couldn't 18:00.672 --> 18:04.370 say you were gay or or bi . I get 18:04.370 --> 18:07.500 that . But that comes with a whole lot 18:07.500 --> 18:10.700 of , um , difficulties and challenges , 18:10.710 --> 18:13.060 uh , that people don't even realize . 18:13.740 --> 18:15.890 Um , and don't , you know , so don't 18:15.890 --> 18:17.779 ask . Don't tell . So our friends 18:17.779 --> 18:20.030 couldn't ask and we couldn't tell the 18:20.030 --> 18:21.808 problem . Well there's multiple 18:21.808 --> 18:24.030 problems with it , but it just requires 18:24.030 --> 18:26.141 you to live this super compartment of 18:26.141 --> 18:28.670 life where I and my friends had to come 18:28.670 --> 18:30.726 to work every day and do the mission 18:30.726 --> 18:32.890 and support the mission that we love 18:32.900 --> 18:36.410 without ever saying anything about our 18:36.410 --> 18:38.640 family , our partner or significant 18:38.640 --> 18:41.900 others . And I tell my friends who did 18:41.900 --> 18:44.122 not live under . Don't ask , don't tell 18:44.122 --> 18:47.940 um , try going through 20 hours without 18:47.940 --> 18:50.162 mentioning anything that indicates that 18:50.162 --> 18:53.690 you have a family or that you are 18:53.690 --> 18:56.420 married or any of that try for 20 hours 18:56.430 --> 18:58.780 or tried for 20 days . So we did it for 18:58.780 --> 19:02.610 20 , almost 20 years . We had to live 19:02.620 --> 19:04.910 in a way that we are allowed to show up 19:04.910 --> 19:06.854 every day and be a part of the Air 19:06.854 --> 19:08.799 Force family but not really have a 19:08.799 --> 19:11.670 family . And those compartments were 19:11.670 --> 19:14.240 really difficult and things as simple 19:14.240 --> 19:16.480 as deployments , which as you know , 19:16.480 --> 19:19.400 we've played a lot and when you deploy , 19:19.410 --> 19:21.466 usually your family drives you up to 19:21.466 --> 19:23.688 the squadron , drops you off , you grab 19:23.688 --> 19:25.688 your bags and everything and you go 19:25.688 --> 19:25.520 into the squadron in the family , 19:25.530 --> 19:27.697 families come in and you kind of spend 19:27.697 --> 19:29.863 those last moments together before you 19:29.863 --> 19:32.086 jump on the rotator and go down range . 19:32.086 --> 19:34.350 Well , I could never do that . And so 19:34.370 --> 19:36.780 my partner would drive me . You know , 19:36.790 --> 19:39.980 it's always zero darker , zero dark 30 19:39.980 --> 19:42.140 in the morning . So drive up to the 19:42.140 --> 19:44.196 squadron and I would just get out of 19:44.196 --> 19:46.418 the car and grabbed my bags . No hugs , 19:46.418 --> 19:48.640 no , nothing . Just okay . See you kind 19:48.640 --> 19:50.751 of waving as if I had taken an Uber , 19:50.940 --> 19:53.330 which didn't exist at the time , but it 19:53.330 --> 19:55.840 was like that . And then I go into the 19:55.840 --> 19:57.896 squadron and I'd be around everybody 19:57.896 --> 20:01.010 else and try to kind of act like I'm 20:01.010 --> 20:03.177 cool . You know , everything's good to 20:03.177 --> 20:05.343 go and then you get on the rotator and 20:05.343 --> 20:07.621 you go and then when you're down range , 20:07.621 --> 20:09.732 everybody else , if something were to 20:09.732 --> 20:09.170 have happened to you , they would have 20:09.180 --> 20:11.330 called Miss Donna and if you know the 20:11.330 --> 20:13.441 worst happened to you , then somebody 20:13.441 --> 20:15.386 would have shown up a team in , in 20:15.386 --> 20:17.274 service dress and they would have 20:17.274 --> 20:19.330 provided all the support . Well that 20:19.330 --> 20:21.386 wasn't the case for us , uh , in our 20:21.386 --> 20:23.441 community . Um , we just had to hope 20:23.441 --> 20:25.441 that nothing happened . Um , and if 20:25.441 --> 20:27.500 something did that somehow , our 20:27.500 --> 20:30.370 friends who knew in the squadron would 20:30.380 --> 20:32.990 be able to go handle things the best 20:32.990 --> 20:35.690 they could . But that was really scary 20:35.690 --> 20:37.634 living like that . And then on the 20:37.634 --> 20:40.340 return side of deployments , the 20:40.340 --> 20:42.451 rotator pulls up and as you know , we 20:42.451 --> 20:44.618 had operation homecoming every month , 20:44.618 --> 20:46.673 the rotator would come in and he had 20:46.673 --> 20:48.840 the families and the dogs and the kids 20:48.840 --> 20:48.810 and everybody in balloons and everybody 20:48.810 --> 20:50.977 gets off the airplane and greets their 20:50.977 --> 20:53.610 loved ones . And uh , I just got off 20:53.610 --> 20:56.270 the airplane right walk through and I 20:56.270 --> 20:58.780 mean I was happy to see people , but I 20:58.780 --> 21:01.540 had to go outside and bring my bags and 21:01.550 --> 21:03.550 kind of load him in a car and again 21:03.550 --> 21:06.000 pretend like I just had somebody I knew 21:06.000 --> 21:08.167 picked me up when in fact it was , you 21:08.167 --> 21:10.500 know , my significant out of there . So , 21:10.500 --> 21:12.760 but as a squadron commander , I really 21:12.760 --> 21:14.982 loved that the Air Force did all that . 21:14.982 --> 21:17.038 So I supported it and I went to them 21:17.038 --> 21:19.093 and I wanted to support our families 21:19.093 --> 21:21.204 like that . So I I kind of lived this 21:21.204 --> 21:23.300 this dual life . Um The other thing 21:23.300 --> 21:25.522 that was interesting about living under 21:25.522 --> 21:27.578 don't ask , don't tell is it created 21:27.578 --> 21:29.744 this artificial vulnerability in terms 21:29.744 --> 21:33.050 of security clearances . Because if we 21:33.050 --> 21:35.910 have this artificial requirement or or 21:35.920 --> 21:39.450 or restriction on being 21:39.840 --> 21:43.450 ah gay in the military , because we 21:43.460 --> 21:46.020 decide that , then there was always the 21:46.020 --> 21:47.742 issue of , well , you could be 21:47.742 --> 21:49.964 blackmailed if anybody finds out you're 21:49.964 --> 21:52.076 gay . It was like why are we imposing 21:52.076 --> 21:55.460 that on ourselves ? Um And so we want 21:55.460 --> 21:57.627 to don't ask , don't tell was lifted . 21:57.627 --> 21:59.682 It was like , okay , yeah , that was 21:59.682 --> 22:01.627 easy . We got rid of that security 22:01.627 --> 22:03.849 vulnerability , literally for no reason 22:03.849 --> 22:06.420 that was in place . The other thing too 22:06.420 --> 22:09.880 is I love the Air Force , I love 22:09.890 --> 22:12.110 abstract , I love the mission , but I 22:12.110 --> 22:14.221 could not be fully present . I wanted 22:14.221 --> 22:16.443 to , I gave everything I could , but it 22:16.443 --> 22:18.750 was you know , half of myself because I 22:18.750 --> 22:20.861 always had half of myself tied behind 22:20.861 --> 22:23.083 my back because it was that compartment 22:23.083 --> 22:24.972 of who my family was and what was 22:24.972 --> 22:27.083 important to me outside of that . And 22:27.083 --> 22:29.260 so there was just and I know our other 22:29.260 --> 22:31.427 airmen were very restricted by that as 22:31.427 --> 22:35.320 well or other LGBTQ Plus Airman . So 22:35.330 --> 22:37.670 uh let's if you don't want to I want to 22:37.670 --> 22:39.837 talk a little about the Air Force core 22:39.837 --> 22:42.300 values and Air Force core values were 22:42.300 --> 22:44.356 something that I thought about a lot 22:44.356 --> 22:46.411 and I was in the Air Force when when 22:46.411 --> 22:50.330 they were created and yeah , you look 22:50.330 --> 22:52.441 at service before self excellence and 22:52.441 --> 22:54.497 all . We do an integrity and service 22:54.497 --> 22:56.900 before self . That is something that I 22:56.900 --> 22:59.340 will tell you that uh your L . G . B . 22:59.340 --> 23:01.660 T . Q members who were serving under . 23:01.660 --> 23:03.604 Don't ask don't tell and today but 23:03.604 --> 23:05.604 really under Don't ask don't tell . 23:05.604 --> 23:07.827 They were all about service Before Self 23:07.827 --> 23:10.300 I think the Secretary Defense a couple 23:10.300 --> 23:12.578 weeks ago said it really well in his D . 23:12.578 --> 23:14.578 O . D . Pride speech , he said they 23:14.578 --> 23:16.633 fought for our country even when our 23:16.633 --> 23:18.800 country wouldn't fight for them and we 23:18.800 --> 23:21.650 put everything we love and no aside to 23:21.650 --> 23:24.720 continue fighting to for our country . 23:24.730 --> 23:26.920 So service before self is something I 23:26.930 --> 23:30.490 really relate to excellence and all we 23:30.490 --> 23:32.657 do . And this is kind of a one that my 23:32.657 --> 23:34.434 friends and I in the LGBTQ plus 23:34.434 --> 23:36.657 Community kind of joke about because we 23:36.657 --> 23:38.768 wanted we wanted to be so bad that we 23:38.768 --> 23:40.768 gave everything we had to it and we 23:40.768 --> 23:42.879 would joke that you could almost tell 23:42.879 --> 23:44.990 who was in the LGBTQ Plus community 23:44.990 --> 23:47.700 because they have all these awards when 23:47.700 --> 23:49.811 you talk about excellence and all you 23:49.811 --> 23:52.033 do , Including one of my friends who is 23:52.033 --> 23:54.089 a retired chief and for the 30 years 23:54.089 --> 23:56.200 that she was in , she had a quarterly 23:56.200 --> 23:58.200 or yearly award every year that she 23:58.200 --> 24:00.311 served . And part of that was wanting 24:00.311 --> 24:02.478 to be excellent and wanting to serve . 24:02.478 --> 24:04.589 But part of it was also wanting to be 24:04.589 --> 24:06.890 above reproach so that if somebody 24:06.900 --> 24:09.410 thought , well I don't really like you . 24:09.410 --> 24:12.350 So I'm going to report you to us . I 24:12.840 --> 24:14.930 that you could find yourself in a 24:14.940 --> 24:17.740 situation that could ruin your career . 24:17.750 --> 24:19.860 And so you wanted to be that airmen 24:19.870 --> 24:22.092 that your commanders in your leadership 24:22.092 --> 24:24.540 said , you know what ? She's so awesome , 24:24.540 --> 24:27.470 He's so awesome . Like we're just gonna 24:27.480 --> 24:30.220 keep going from here . And uh , and so 24:30.220 --> 24:31.942 that was , you know , that was 24:31.942 --> 24:34.053 something that was always present for 24:34.053 --> 24:36.220 us . And then , you know , integrity , 24:36.220 --> 24:38.276 I I always had to live under . Don't 24:38.276 --> 24:40.442 ask , don't tell with the nobody could 24:40.442 --> 24:42.609 ask me , but people in the course of a 24:42.609 --> 24:44.498 normal conversation talking about 24:44.498 --> 24:44.260 family , we're talking about the air 24:44.260 --> 24:46.460 force all the time , which is great . 24:46.640 --> 24:48.696 You know , you're married , you have 24:48.696 --> 24:50.751 kids . And so sometimes people would 24:50.751 --> 24:52.807 just say , oh , you're so you're not 24:52.807 --> 24:54.862 married yet , are you going to be or 24:54.862 --> 24:57.250 something very innocent like that ? And 24:57.260 --> 25:00.630 I would say to them , if I meet the man 25:00.630 --> 25:03.190 who was my match , I will marry him and 25:03.190 --> 25:05.468 I knowing that was an infant testimony , 25:05.468 --> 25:07.900 small chance probably . But you know , 25:07.910 --> 25:10.077 I suppose it would have been true to . 25:10.077 --> 25:12.299 So that's , that's kind of how I handle 25:12.299 --> 25:14.521 that . But living under don't ask Santo 25:14.521 --> 25:16.743 was very confusing . The other thing it 25:16.743 --> 25:18.966 was confusing for , it was not just the 25:18.966 --> 25:21.730 gay bi members . It was also everybody 25:21.740 --> 25:24.420 like you and our other airmen who knew 25:24.420 --> 25:26.750 us . So we had to be really careful 25:26.750 --> 25:28.694 because we never wanted to put our 25:28.694 --> 25:30.861 friends and our co workers in a bind . 25:30.861 --> 25:33.770 So those of us who knew about us also 25:33.770 --> 25:35.870 had kind of keep it hidden . So they 25:35.870 --> 25:39.360 had and if you , 25:39.840 --> 25:41.970 if we wanted to share ourselves 25:41.980 --> 25:44.950 authentically with our co workers now 25:44.950 --> 25:46.950 we're putting them in a position of 25:46.950 --> 25:48.783 having to hold hold that in case 25:48.783 --> 25:50.561 something were to come up in an 25:50.561 --> 25:52.672 investigation or whatever . It really 25:52.672 --> 25:52.620 just put everybody in this strange bind . 25:52.630 --> 25:55.840 So when it was repealed , that was that 25:55.840 --> 25:59.340 was a fantastic before we shifted that 25:59.340 --> 26:01.284 I just want to comment on the core 26:01.284 --> 26:03.451 values because I love the way you laid 26:03.451 --> 26:05.507 that out . Uh and every all three of 26:05.507 --> 26:08.460 those examples . Excellence one I would 26:08.460 --> 26:11.010 comment on just because I was recently 26:11.010 --> 26:13.066 made aware , by the way , you know , 26:13.066 --> 26:15.399 you're kind of award winners , you know , 26:15.399 --> 26:17.399 you know , is kind of a signal or a 26:17.399 --> 26:19.566 sign or whatever . I was recently made 26:19.566 --> 26:22.510 aware of Airmen . Uh that was as a 26:22.520 --> 26:24.742 serving , you know , Blue Suit airman . 26:24.840 --> 26:28.280 Uh she was a firefighter and was 26:28.280 --> 26:30.336 chairman of the Outstanding Women of 26:30.336 --> 26:33.720 the Year , select the and 26:33.730 --> 26:36.960 because of the challenges that she's uh , 26:37.640 --> 26:40.090 you know , confronted along her journey , 26:40.100 --> 26:42.590 I got out of the uh active duty blue 26:42.590 --> 26:45.030 suit wearing Air Force was A GS . And 26:45.030 --> 26:48.580 she's now a she's now a two time uh 26:48.590 --> 26:50.640 Sandy Airman of the Year award 26:50.640 --> 26:53.020 recipient now as a G . S . And it kind 26:53.020 --> 26:55.570 of backs up the point , your 26:57.110 --> 26:59.332 level of excellence . Okay , so tell us 26:59.332 --> 27:01.443 about the repeal of don't ask . Don't 27:01.443 --> 27:04.710 tell in September 20 , 2011 , 11 . Yes . 27:04.720 --> 27:08.190 Um the the most terrifying and 27:08.200 --> 27:11.380 unremarkable day of my career . Uh and 27:11.380 --> 27:13.602 I say that , you know , no , and I done 27:13.602 --> 27:15.658 a lot of combat and been in a lot of 27:15.658 --> 27:18.070 challenging situations . But the repeal 27:18.070 --> 27:20.480 of don't ask , don't tell Congress 27:20.480 --> 27:22.830 worked on that for quite a while . And 27:22.840 --> 27:26.310 they did the vote at the end of 2010 . 27:26.310 --> 27:28.477 But They said there's going to be this 27:28.477 --> 27:30.720 cooling off period for nine months , 27:30.720 --> 27:32.942 which is why it didn't actually go into 27:32.942 --> 27:35.109 the repeal into effect in September of 27:35.109 --> 27:37.331 2011 . And I remember watching the vote 27:37.331 --> 27:39.520 on tv , I was actually in California , 27:39.530 --> 27:41.910 senior developmental education at 27:41.920 --> 27:45.130 stanford and I watched the vote and I 27:45.130 --> 27:48.670 was so excited when it passed . And 27:49.140 --> 27:51.362 And then afterward it was like , well , 27:51.362 --> 27:53.362 that that's great , but what are we 27:53.362 --> 27:55.473 holding on to for the next nine or 10 27:55.473 --> 27:57.529 months for this cooling off period ? 27:57.540 --> 28:00.750 And evidently it was to have a lot of 28:00.750 --> 28:02.910 training . And so a lot of the airmen 28:02.910 --> 28:05.100 who who were in back then , No . And 28:05.100 --> 28:07.620 they had to go through this repeal of 28:07.620 --> 28:09.787 don't ask don't tell training and what 28:09.787 --> 28:12.010 it was going to be like . And um , I 28:12.010 --> 28:13.843 had to go through it , I think I 28:13.843 --> 28:16.930 probably did it , my CBT . Um , and uh 28:16.940 --> 28:20.220 and I thought , wait , I've been in the 28:20.220 --> 28:23.030 Air Force this whole time and now 28:23.040 --> 28:25.207 everybody has to take training because 28:25.207 --> 28:27.318 they're going to just find out that I 28:27.318 --> 28:29.429 am who I am . And the other thing too 28:29.429 --> 28:32.970 was um there was no 28:32.970 --> 28:36.650 training specifically for me or for 28:36.650 --> 28:39.500 people like me who were going to have 28:39.500 --> 28:42.640 the option out to serve freely and be 28:42.640 --> 28:44.807 who we were . So if you wanted to come 28:44.807 --> 28:46.973 out or if you wanted to tell people or 28:46.973 --> 28:48.862 if you're just going through this 28:48.862 --> 28:50.307 transition of living this 28:50.307 --> 28:52.362 extraordinarily compartmented life , 28:52.840 --> 28:54.451 you're allowed to open those 28:54.451 --> 28:56.784 compartments . Now , how do you do that ? 28:56.784 --> 28:58.840 There was no training for us . There 28:58.840 --> 28:58.640 was nothing , it was just , you know , 28:58.650 --> 29:01.770 good luck , Have fun with that . And I 29:01.780 --> 29:03.780 thought this is really strange . It 29:03.780 --> 29:05.780 seemed backwards , but the day that 29:05.780 --> 29:08.220 came along September 20 , 2011 , I was 29:08.220 --> 29:10.109 working on the joint stuff in the 29:10.109 --> 29:12.276 Pentagon and for everybody's worked in 29:12.276 --> 29:14.276 the pentagon , you know , the metro 29:14.276 --> 29:16.900 pulls up And 23,000 or whatever , 29:16.900 --> 29:18.733 people pour off the metro in the 29:18.733 --> 29:21.310 parking into the pentagon , it fills up 29:21.310 --> 29:23.477 a reason their office of their cubes . 29:23.477 --> 29:25.366 And then at the end of the day it 29:25.366 --> 29:27.588 empties out and it's just day after day 29:27.588 --> 29:30.530 after day . and so the day before I was 29:30.530 --> 29:32.641 going to go in on September 20 and it 29:32.641 --> 29:34.808 was repealed . Um , I was at home with 29:34.808 --> 29:38.730 an and I was nervous as a cat on a hot 29:38.730 --> 29:40.786 tin roof , like what it was gonna be 29:40.786 --> 29:43.080 like tomorrow . I don't know , I was 29:43.090 --> 29:45.257 like , I don't get this nervous before 29:45.257 --> 29:47.146 going on a combat mission , right 29:47.146 --> 29:49.312 mission plan , You're like , okay , we 29:49.312 --> 29:51.312 got this and off you go , I did not 29:51.312 --> 29:53.770 have this , I was , wow , what do I do ? 29:53.770 --> 29:56.420 And and said just go to work , just put 29:56.420 --> 29:59.720 on your uniform and go to work and uh 29:59.730 --> 30:01.940 okay , so that that was the , that was 30:01.940 --> 30:04.610 the commander's intent . I was given go 30:04.610 --> 30:06.721 to work the big boss , the big boss . 30:06.740 --> 30:09.170 So what did I do ? I got on the metro , 30:09.740 --> 30:12.870 um rode the metro , got off the metro , 30:12.880 --> 30:15.520 got onto the escalator , went into the 30:15.530 --> 30:17.880 office or went into the hallways and 30:17.890 --> 30:20.680 everybody else did too . It was totally 30:20.680 --> 30:23.440 boring , totally normal . I just walked 30:23.440 --> 30:26.770 in and I was like , you know what ? 30:27.340 --> 30:31.100 Um my existence today and my 30:31.110 --> 30:34.400 freedom to be who I fully am did not 30:34.400 --> 30:36.622 melt down the military . The Department 30:36.622 --> 30:38.844 of Defense is still operating just like 30:38.844 --> 30:41.310 every other day . Um and it's so normal 30:41.320 --> 30:44.490 and that felt so good because I've met 30:44.500 --> 30:46.722 up until that day , had never been able 30:46.722 --> 30:49.780 to just feel normal in the military and 30:50.060 --> 30:52.300 that was this huge sense of relief and 30:52.300 --> 30:54.400 my friends that I talked to felt the 30:54.400 --> 30:57.450 same way , like God , it's just great . 30:57.940 --> 31:01.760 Um and that day went on like in 31:01.770 --> 31:04.130 all the days after it . And so we've 31:04.130 --> 31:07.440 done a lot since then um to to become 31:07.440 --> 31:10.660 more vocal and more out and represent , 31:11.040 --> 31:13.270 but at the time I didn't , I didn't 31:13.270 --> 31:16.020 tell anybody , I just just showed up to 31:16.020 --> 31:18.076 work and that was pretty cool , so , 31:18.076 --> 31:20.620 and the military did not come apart and 31:20.620 --> 31:22.564 the pentagon did not sink into the 31:22.564 --> 31:24.580 ground . So we made it . Yes sir , 31:24.590 --> 31:27.900 awesome . Maybe one more acronym that 31:27.900 --> 31:30.590 we should go through Doma Doma , can 31:30.590 --> 31:32.940 you explain that to us in our audience ? 31:32.950 --> 31:35.380 Yes , sir . So Doma was passed in the 31:35.380 --> 31:37.630 19 nineties Defense of Marriage Act and 31:37.630 --> 31:40.170 it uh stated that marriage would be 31:40.170 --> 31:42.392 recognized only between one man and one 31:42.392 --> 31:46.350 woman . And um and 31:47.040 --> 31:50.690 that was the thing about 31:50.690 --> 31:54.040 Doma is that it did not allow military 31:54.040 --> 31:58.000 members in LGBTQ relationships to be 31:58.000 --> 32:01.700 married . So you could 32:01.700 --> 32:04.330 though individual states started 32:04.330 --> 32:06.720 allowing same marriage in their states . 32:07.340 --> 32:11.240 And The repeal or 32:11.240 --> 32:14.650 that in 2013 the Supreme Court 32:14.660 --> 32:17.760 took a case called Windsor vs us 32:18.240 --> 32:21.070 and this was actually a case about 32:21.080 --> 32:24.170 taxes , but it ended up 32:24.840 --> 32:28.400 implementing the policies that we have 32:28.400 --> 32:30.456 today in the federal government with 32:30.456 --> 32:32.780 regard to recognizing marriage . And so 32:32.790 --> 32:36.210 Edie Windsor and her partner were same 32:36.640 --> 32:38.807 female couple and they were married in 32:38.807 --> 32:40.584 Canada . But their marriage was 32:40.584 --> 32:43.280 recognized in new york and her partner 32:43.740 --> 32:46.970 fear died and they had been together 32:46.980 --> 32:49.530 for over 40 years and they were legally 32:49.530 --> 32:53.450 married . But the they 32:53.840 --> 32:57.170 their marriage was not recognized for 32:57.180 --> 32:59.402 from the federal government and the I . 32:59.402 --> 33:03.360 R . S . And they came after uh 33:03.740 --> 33:06.220 Edie Windsor for between three and 33:06.220 --> 33:10.110 $400,000 in taxes . So a straight 33:10.110 --> 33:12.710 married couple wouldn't have had to pay 33:12.720 --> 33:16.620 those taxes but Edie was 33:16.620 --> 33:19.370 told she had to and so that she took 33:19.370 --> 33:21.481 that to court and that went up to the 33:21.481 --> 33:25.180 Supreme Court and they ruled that that 33:25.190 --> 33:28.650 violated uh that 33:28.650 --> 33:32.410 Doma Violated the 5th 33:32.410 --> 33:34.688 Amendment . I believe the constitution . 33:34.688 --> 33:37.500 And so by overturning the Defense of 33:37.500 --> 33:41.110 Marriage Act , they recognized 33:41.120 --> 33:43.390 that the federal government would 33:43.390 --> 33:45.557 recognize same marriages . And this is 33:45.557 --> 33:47.980 important because what that meant for 33:47.980 --> 33:51.970 military members is now our marriage is 33:51.970 --> 33:53.803 if we got married in D . C . Are 33:53.803 --> 33:55.859 married in a state that allowed it . 33:55.859 --> 33:58.081 Now the military would recognize it and 33:58.081 --> 34:00.192 you could be married , you could have 34:00.192 --> 34:02.359 full access to the family care and and 34:02.359 --> 34:04.581 everything that the military provided . 34:04.581 --> 34:07.750 But what it didn't do was legalize 34:07.750 --> 34:11.000 marriage across all 50 states . So if 34:11.000 --> 34:13.370 you are a same couple like an and I . 34:13.370 --> 34:15.481 And your Pcs and you're in D . C . We 34:15.481 --> 34:18.300 got married in october 2013 and you're 34:18.300 --> 34:20.633 in Washington D . C . You're good to go . 34:20.633 --> 34:24.460 But as soon as you pcs and you drive on 34:24.460 --> 34:26.627 the interstate depending on what state 34:26.627 --> 34:28.404 you're in , if you got in a car 34:28.404 --> 34:30.500 accident or something happened that 34:30.500 --> 34:33.050 state may or may not recognize you as 34:33.330 --> 34:36.400 the spouse . And so they could say , 34:36.400 --> 34:40.160 yeah I'm sorry you're partner is in the 34:40.160 --> 34:43.190 hospital but you can't go see her . But 34:43.200 --> 34:45.570 somebody else who was a family member 34:45.570 --> 34:47.626 could and they could also say that I 34:47.626 --> 34:49.792 couldn't go in to see her if that were 34:49.792 --> 34:52.340 to happen . So it was a really complex 34:52.350 --> 34:54.750 environment to be in at the time . And 34:54.750 --> 34:56.639 that created a lot of interesting 34:56.880 --> 35:00.200 conundrums for us . And so then 35:00.210 --> 35:04.200 2015 actually , it was june 26 2013 35:04.210 --> 35:06.377 was the repeal of Doma , and then june 35:06.377 --> 35:08.800 26 2015 , So exactly , so 13 to 15 , 2 35:08.800 --> 35:12.750 years later was the the Supreme 35:12.750 --> 35:14.806 Court ruled , ruled on what's called 35:14.806 --> 35:16.861 Lagerfeld versus Hodges . And okay , 35:16.861 --> 35:20.260 what was that ? And that was The 35:20.270 --> 35:22.492 Supreme Court determined that there was 35:22.492 --> 35:24.437 a fundamental right under the 14th 35:24.437 --> 35:26.659 amendment in this case for same couples 35:26.659 --> 35:28.714 to marry and that's guaranteed under 35:28.714 --> 35:30.826 the 14th amendment , the constitution 35:30.826 --> 35:32.937 and our marriages would be recognized 35:32.937 --> 35:35.103 in all 50 states . Okay , so the first 35:35.103 --> 35:37.330 one overturn Doma , which led federal 35:37.340 --> 35:39.507 government recognize us , and then the 35:39.507 --> 35:41.729 second one was Marriage equality in all 35:41.729 --> 35:45.440 50 states and now we could really 35:45.440 --> 35:48.670 truly live um as a married couple 35:49.440 --> 35:51.329 wherever we were stationed in the 35:51.329 --> 35:53.384 United States . So those are sort of 35:53.384 --> 35:56.090 the big yeah , well , Brenda , thanks 35:56.100 --> 36:00.050 that I know that that uh there's a 36:00.050 --> 36:03.550 lot to digest historical wise , but the 36:03.550 --> 36:05.494 fact the point is , you've been an 36:05.494 --> 36:08.700 airman serving airman through all of 36:08.700 --> 36:12.070 this historical time frame . Uh and 36:12.070 --> 36:14.237 when we , you know , we kind of stated 36:14.237 --> 36:16.348 up front the initiatives that lit has 36:16.348 --> 36:18.570 is underway , which is pretty healthy , 36:18.570 --> 36:20.514 just from the smallest of that you 36:20.514 --> 36:22.570 articulated . There's there's been a 36:22.570 --> 36:24.626 lot , so I guess really the point is 36:24.626 --> 36:24.290 there's been a lot of ground covered 36:24.300 --> 36:26.870 and a lot of positive ground uh but but 36:26.870 --> 36:29.260 this is maybe only the , it's not the 36:29.260 --> 36:31.093 end , it maybe is the end of the 36:31.093 --> 36:33.810 beginning . Uh you could say that 36:34.480 --> 36:38.300 Marilyn are , do we have some 36:38.300 --> 36:40.411 folks that are looking to chime in by 36:40.411 --> 36:42.411 chance ? We have a few shout outs . 36:42.411 --> 36:44.300 This is the time for us to remind 36:44.300 --> 36:46.411 everybody to get their questions in . 36:46.411 --> 36:48.522 We only have a few questions so far , 36:48.522 --> 36:48.400 but we have something that we can add 36:48.400 --> 36:52.020 into . Um , so we have a 36:52.030 --> 36:54.197 Jeanette santos who says thank you for 36:54.197 --> 36:56.086 visiting kessler and sharing your 36:56.086 --> 36:58.252 knowledge and wisdom with our airmen . 36:58.252 --> 37:00.308 Thank you Jeanette . She was part of 37:00.308 --> 37:02.308 the committee and led the committee 37:02.308 --> 37:04.419 that put together that that part of a 37:04.419 --> 37:06.641 fantastic . So thank you Captain Santos 37:06.641 --> 37:09.330 someone you know , and Harrington shout 37:09.330 --> 37:11.640 out to the great work lid is doing and 37:11.640 --> 37:13.880 major general ladder backs , vision and 37:13.880 --> 37:15.880 leadership in getting that dog team 37:15.880 --> 37:19.740 started . Kathy miller says , thank you 37:19.740 --> 37:21.462 for all your brave service and 37:21.462 --> 37:23.573 sacrifice for the freedom we continue 37:23.573 --> 37:27.380 to enjoy . God bless you all . I'd like 37:27.380 --> 37:29.750 to ask a question that that we had just 37:29.750 --> 37:31.960 in case we needed to chime in with 37:31.970 --> 37:34.081 other questions and and that would be 37:34.081 --> 37:37.160 ma'am . So is the focus on 37:37.170 --> 37:40.640 LGBTQ Plus making the military 37:40.640 --> 37:43.030 weaker ? What would you say to someone 37:43.040 --> 37:44.818 if you were assad ? I would say 37:44.818 --> 37:46.929 absolutely not . In fact the opposite 37:46.929 --> 37:49.450 is true . It's making it stronger . And 37:49.460 --> 37:52.780 here's why when I talked about living 37:52.780 --> 37:54.947 the compartments and kind of not being 37:54.947 --> 37:57.058 able to be your full self even though 37:57.058 --> 37:58.947 you want to and you want to bring 37:58.947 --> 38:01.002 everything you have to the mission , 38:01.002 --> 38:03.330 the worry , the concerns , the 38:03.330 --> 38:06.610 distractions around being found 38:06.610 --> 38:10.420 out . Our family is not being 38:10.430 --> 38:13.160 supported or recognized at all . That 38:13.170 --> 38:17.110 kept us from being 100% in our mission . 38:17.130 --> 38:19.352 So even though you know we win awards , 38:19.352 --> 38:21.630 we do good things and we and we thrive . 38:21.630 --> 38:25.370 It was it's not full . And so once 38:25.370 --> 38:27.370 don't ask don't tell was repealed . 38:27.520 --> 38:29.742 Doma was overturned and we were allowed 38:29.742 --> 38:32.370 to be open full members of the air 38:32.370 --> 38:34.870 Force community . We became stronger 38:34.880 --> 38:38.180 because then we started to be able to 38:38.180 --> 38:40.347 go do the mission knowing if something 38:40.347 --> 38:42.569 happened , our families were taken care 38:42.569 --> 38:44.870 of , they had um all the resources , 38:44.870 --> 38:46.926 medical , family , resource center , 38:46.926 --> 38:50.340 anything like that . Um and it made , 38:50.350 --> 38:53.690 it makes me stronger and able to bring 38:53.690 --> 38:56.490 my full power of what I want to do and 38:56.490 --> 38:58.601 can do for the military to work every 38:58.601 --> 39:00.657 day . And I know that our LGBTQ Plus 39:00.657 --> 39:03.400 Airmen feel that way as well because if 39:03.400 --> 39:05.233 something is distracting you and 39:05.233 --> 39:07.567 something is holding you back that hard . 39:07.567 --> 39:10.120 Um I think under don't ask don't tell 39:10.120 --> 39:12.720 we were Actually a weaker military then 39:12.720 --> 39:15.720 and now we're stronger because you got 39:15.720 --> 39:18.600 us 100% . Um and 39:18.650 --> 39:21.920 we we are 39:21.920 --> 39:24.630 stronger , not just in the LGBTQ Plus 39:24.630 --> 39:27.210 community , but we're stronger because 39:27.220 --> 39:29.442 of diversity across the board . And you 39:29.442 --> 39:31.664 said earlier in our discussion sir with 39:31.664 --> 39:33.776 the different initiatives , the teams 39:33.776 --> 39:35.887 under the bog . Mhm . There are cross 39:35.887 --> 39:38.250 cutting initiatives and now we have 39:38.260 --> 39:41.400 really focused teams looking at this at 39:41.400 --> 39:44.840 all levels and bringing that up and as 39:44.840 --> 39:47.340 we fix policies and we work together , 39:47.350 --> 39:50.980 um it makes us stronger and better and 39:50.990 --> 39:53.101 it also were an all volunteer force , 39:53.101 --> 39:56.270 so if we need to recruit , train and 39:56.270 --> 39:59.530 retain the best quality being a place 39:59.530 --> 40:03.530 that is open and supportive people are 40:03.530 --> 40:05.808 going to look at the Air Force and say , 40:05.808 --> 40:07.919 or the military , but look at the Air 40:07.919 --> 40:10.030 Force and say I want to go do that um 40:10.030 --> 40:12.141 because they take care of me and they 40:12.141 --> 40:14.308 take care of our families . That makes 40:14.308 --> 40:16.474 us stronger because we can retain , we 40:16.474 --> 40:18.752 can recruit and retain the best talent . 40:18.752 --> 40:20.641 I fully feel that we are stronger 40:20.641 --> 40:22.870 because of it . I like the point I've 40:22.870 --> 40:25.110 heard you state earlier , hey , okay , 40:25.110 --> 40:27.332 there's been some repeals of these acts 40:27.332 --> 40:30.230 and so forth , but that didn't just say , 40:30.240 --> 40:33.340 hey , gay and transgender , so you're 40:33.350 --> 40:36.400 free to join the military . They've 40:36.410 --> 40:39.910 always been in the military , right ? I 40:39.920 --> 40:42.087 mean , I don't let me steal your words 40:42.087 --> 40:44.198 on that . But you know , I think from 40:44.198 --> 40:47.820 that standpoint , it's uh 100% always 40:47.820 --> 40:49.598 been , we've always been in the 40:49.598 --> 40:52.590 military and that is so it's not that 40:52.590 --> 40:54.646 suddenly the doors were open and all 40:54.646 --> 40:56.920 the LGBTQ plus people rushed in and 40:56.920 --> 40:59.510 diluted the military . We just , like I 40:59.510 --> 41:02.340 said , we just showed up to work again 41:02.350 --> 41:04.850 on september 2020 11 and kept doing our 41:04.850 --> 41:07.290 thing , but we could do it even better 41:07.290 --> 41:10.950 and just feel better . And so we have 41:10.960 --> 41:14.330 been among the services 41:14.710 --> 41:17.170 for years and um the Secretary Defense 41:17.170 --> 41:19.281 mentioned that as well in his remarks 41:19.281 --> 41:21.392 and he talked about some of the folks 41:21.392 --> 41:23.281 in the past that have done really 41:23.281 --> 41:26.940 meritorious work in combat and not 41:27.310 --> 41:30.640 so Right . That's a great point , sir . 41:31.110 --> 41:34.140 The uh I've got another question if you 41:34.810 --> 41:38.540 we uh we've been spending this time 41:38.540 --> 41:40.700 here talking , you know , I can't 41:40.710 --> 41:44.520 principally on gay , but there's 41:44.520 --> 41:47.930 been a number of policies and 41:47.930 --> 41:50.440 policy reversals and reenactments of 41:50.440 --> 41:52.607 policies with respect to transgender . 41:52.607 --> 41:54.773 Would you mind uh sharing some of that 41:54.773 --> 41:56.884 perspective with us ? So I was a wing 41:56.884 --> 41:58.996 commander when our transgender airmen 41:58.996 --> 42:02.910 were allowed to um serve and that was 42:02.920 --> 42:05.142 brought on board that policy . That was 42:05.142 --> 42:08.750 terrific . And we had I had 42:08.750 --> 42:11.190 transgender airmen who were really 42:11.190 --> 42:13.730 nervous about coming forward and 42:13.740 --> 42:15.900 talking to their commanders , front 42:15.900 --> 42:19.370 line supervisors or to me about that 42:19.380 --> 42:23.360 because they were very concerned about 42:23.370 --> 42:26.270 would the policy be reversed ? And I'll 42:26.270 --> 42:28.159 tell you what , there are , gay , 42:28.159 --> 42:31.990 bisexual service members who served on 42:32.000 --> 42:34.000 way before . Don't ask . Don't tell 42:34.000 --> 42:36.222 back when they were witch hunts and you 42:36.222 --> 42:37.889 could get arrested and put in 42:37.889 --> 42:40.620 confinement for being gay . And this 42:40.620 --> 42:44.150 happened . And um they 42:44.150 --> 42:47.500 served under such a 42:47.510 --> 42:50.240 hostile environment that to this day , 42:50.250 --> 42:52.880 even at long retired , they still won't 42:52.890 --> 42:55.030 come out because they were concerned 42:55.030 --> 42:57.308 after donuts . Don't tell was repealed , 42:57.308 --> 42:59.086 that at some point it might get 42:59.086 --> 43:01.141 switched and now everybody's out and 43:01.500 --> 43:03.850 now , well , it's kind of hard to say . 43:03.850 --> 43:06.017 I'll marry the man . You know , when I 43:06.017 --> 43:08.128 uh if I meet the man who's my match , 43:08.128 --> 43:10.239 I'll marry him because I'm married to 43:10.239 --> 43:11.960 an Harrington . So that's a 43:11.960 --> 43:14.960 vulnerability , Right ? And so for the 43:14.960 --> 43:17.350 LGBT community that worked out okay . 43:17.360 --> 43:19.360 But for the transgender community , 43:19.400 --> 43:22.780 that policy actually was reversed . And 43:22.790 --> 43:25.900 um transgender airman or transgender 43:25.900 --> 43:28.067 people who wanted to come into the Air 43:28.067 --> 43:30.690 Force , we're told , nope , you you're 43:30.690 --> 43:34.210 not allowed uh and turned away . And 43:34.210 --> 43:38.120 so that trust that we rely on as 43:38.290 --> 43:42.140 airmen , as special operators , as when 43:42.140 --> 43:44.307 we go into those tough situations , we 43:44.307 --> 43:46.560 rely on our trust for each other . And 43:46.560 --> 43:50.140 we broke that trust with our airmen and 43:50.150 --> 43:52.590 we broke that trust with the people who 43:52.590 --> 43:54.850 prepared and took the test and did 43:54.850 --> 43:57.380 everything it did took to become 43:57.380 --> 43:59.710 qualified to come in . And that was 43:59.710 --> 44:02.780 heartbreaking for me because as I said , 44:02.780 --> 44:06.530 I had transgender airman in my wing and 44:06.530 --> 44:09.300 I know of some today who had to live 44:09.310 --> 44:12.890 that that terrifying experience . So I 44:12.900 --> 44:15.122 think things have turned around now and 44:15.122 --> 44:17.530 have stabilized , but that is something 44:17.530 --> 44:19.990 that we need to be really cognizant of 44:20.000 --> 44:22.222 and let's not make that mistake again , 44:23.490 --> 44:27.370 that's her . In that same vein where 44:27.380 --> 44:29.324 you were talking about serving all 44:29.324 --> 44:31.980 along , um Robben Island asked how do 44:31.980 --> 44:33.813 you think that the Air Force can 44:33.813 --> 44:36.320 improve the way that we recruit ? L G B 44:36.320 --> 44:39.560 T . Q . Plus Airmen ? Some simple 44:39.560 --> 44:42.740 things are just , again , the language 44:42.750 --> 44:46.140 and the way that we represent what the 44:46.140 --> 44:48.084 Air Force looks like when you talk 44:48.084 --> 44:49.918 about , you know , go to central 44:49.918 --> 44:52.029 casting and get me the the the person 44:52.029 --> 44:54.490 to put on the poster . Uh let's let's 44:54.490 --> 44:56.601 put a person on the recruiting poster 44:56.601 --> 45:00.040 or the people that um let our 45:00.050 --> 45:03.620 LGBTQ Plus communities , no , that 45:03.630 --> 45:06.340 there are represented and their welcome 45:06.350 --> 45:08.406 um events like this in general web . 45:08.406 --> 45:10.406 You've been doing a terrific job of 45:10.406 --> 45:14.320 just bringing this out , not just our 45:14.320 --> 45:16.550 group , but all of the real talks that 45:16.550 --> 45:18.620 you've done that say , hey , your 45:18.620 --> 45:20.731 leadership , if you come into the Air 45:20.731 --> 45:22.953 Force , your leadership cares about you 45:22.953 --> 45:25.100 and not because you have to , but 45:25.100 --> 45:27.322 because you generally genuinely want to 45:27.322 --> 45:30.010 and that starts at the top . 45:30.690 --> 45:33.550 And so for people looking , you know , 45:33.550 --> 45:35.550 hey , I want to join the military . 45:35.550 --> 45:37.606 What , where , where should I want ? 45:37.606 --> 45:39.772 Where should I go ? Um , the Air Force 45:39.772 --> 45:41.994 is a place that is open and welcoming . 45:41.994 --> 45:44.930 So if we can have our recruiters 45:44.940 --> 45:46.884 messaging that and we can have our 45:46.884 --> 45:49.320 material that's online or any of that , 45:49.320 --> 45:51.487 that's just represent a representative 45:51.487 --> 45:54.920 and uses inclusive language . Mhm 45:55.490 --> 45:57.712 Heather Hodge says , thank you for this 45:57.712 --> 46:01.310 and happy pride . I'm , I'm curious are 46:01.310 --> 46:03.477 there any programs being discussed for 46:03.477 --> 46:05.940 parents of transgender kids ? I've 46:05.940 --> 46:08.051 struggled with the thought of getting 46:08.051 --> 46:10.162 an assignment to someplace that would 46:10.162 --> 46:12.162 cause challenges for my child . For 46:12.162 --> 46:14.162 example , many states this year are 46:14.162 --> 46:16.273 proposing to ban affirmative care for 46:16.273 --> 46:18.329 trans kids or ban them from sports . 46:18.980 --> 46:20.980 That is an excellent question , and 46:20.980 --> 46:24.800 that's one , I don't know uh 46:25.680 --> 46:27.900 what policies and programs we may be 46:27.900 --> 46:30.122 working on along those lines , but I've 46:30.122 --> 46:32.233 taken a note and I will bring that up 46:32.233 --> 46:34.178 at the lit to make sure that we're 46:34.178 --> 46:36.067 looking at that . Thanks for that 46:36.067 --> 46:38.011 question . Mhm . That's it for the 46:38.011 --> 46:41.100 questions for now . Okay . Um 46:42.780 --> 46:46.320 well , Brenda , you know , I think I 46:46.320 --> 46:48.760 would just just summarize this and 46:48.760 --> 46:51.710 saying uh thank you very much . 46:52.080 --> 46:54.520 Uh I can only , like I said , we've 46:54.520 --> 46:56.800 known each other for uh at least two 46:56.800 --> 47:00.120 decades , uh and uh and have a very 47:00.130 --> 47:02.130 similar background from a special 47:02.130 --> 47:04.240 operations background and the past 47:04.240 --> 47:07.100 couldn't be more different and uh this , 47:07.110 --> 47:09.221 you know , what really resonates with 47:09.221 --> 47:11.443 me is the is your really the discussion 47:11.443 --> 47:15.350 on corvis and service and , you 47:15.350 --> 47:18.500 know , there's just like a number of 47:18.500 --> 47:20.720 these initiative groups , there are a 47:20.730 --> 47:22.730 lot of extra rocks in this rucksack 47:22.980 --> 47:26.210 that's being carried , that we may not 47:26.210 --> 47:28.580 even be aware of , from those of us 47:28.580 --> 47:31.910 that aren't LGBTQ Plus or what have you . 47:32.380 --> 47:35.810 Um so uh so really you've hit on this 47:35.820 --> 47:38.660 a few times and it's my kind of 47:38.670 --> 47:40.910 concluding remarks every time . And 47:40.910 --> 47:44.450 that is uh you know , the events that 47:44.450 --> 47:46.600 happened last summer , first with the 47:46.600 --> 47:48.822 protect our defenders report , and then 47:48.822 --> 47:50.544 with the death of George Floyd 47:50.544 --> 47:53.670 fundamentally changed America , it 47:53.670 --> 47:55.726 fundamentally for sure , changed the 47:55.726 --> 47:57.726 Air Force . Uh the charge could not 47:57.726 --> 48:00.810 have been more clear from our past , uh 48:00.820 --> 48:03.520 Secretary of the Air Force and Chief uh 48:03.520 --> 48:05.560 and our current Chief and Active 48:05.560 --> 48:08.220 Secretary . And that is to engage 48:08.230 --> 48:11.160 because I remain absolutely convinced 48:11.580 --> 48:15.030 that history is being made and we as 48:15.030 --> 48:18.120 leaders and frankly all service members 48:18.130 --> 48:21.790 in our Air Force will be judged on this . 48:21.800 --> 48:24.022 And if and if all that is true . And if 48:24.022 --> 48:27.550 all that is as we believe , diversity 48:27.550 --> 48:29.550 is a war finding imperative . It is 48:29.550 --> 48:31.717 absolutely we're fighting imperative . 48:31.717 --> 48:33.828 And this is about readiness . This is 48:33.828 --> 48:36.050 about mission accomplishment . Then why 48:36.050 --> 48:38.930 don't we make good history ? So , folks , 48:38.930 --> 48:41.410 thanks very much for tuning in to this 48:41.410 --> 48:44.070 edition of Real Talk Brenda . I really 48:44.070 --> 48:46.510 appreciate you being our , our honored 48:46.510 --> 48:49.060 guest for this . And uh , thanks very 48:49.060 --> 48:50.600 much . Thank you . Thanks